Office of Diplomatic Affairs

[Theseus]

Me too. He and I have a pretty good relationship... including backchannel talk at MZO. How 'bout I respond that I will take the lead on diplo with GoW, directly with him and copying MZ? Throw in some placating stuff about our lack of grudges? (He is a bit, uh, 'tetchy' )

[notyoueither]

Only grudge I have is that I think he is a whiney so and so. I got very tired very quick of the wounded UnO when we did not accept what was at the time a ridiculous deal for us. I think I told him so during one of the ***** fests. I think that may be what he is referring to. Or it could be any number of us from the last few flame threads. He has a bit of a persecution complex. I am sorry if I seem unkind, but that is the way I see it.

On the subject of the cesspool that was the public forum at one point, did anyone notice that it all seemed to stop sort of abruptly? I recall flaming H_E for being a troll, after which he changed his avatar to what looks like a roast chicken, then it stopped. All within about 24 hours. Am I dreaming?

[asleepathewheel]

Oh, I agree with you on all points NYE, I just think we are more "professional" about it than they are. While we might have certain feelings about them, we can put them aside to make a deal. Of course, they probably feel the same way about some of us (like me, you, ralph, OPD)

[notyoueither]

Yes, pot-kettle-black comes to mind, but I'm your kettle coming to tell you about their pot.

[Cort Haus]

UNO's launched a funny thread about his demotion following MZ's ascendancy. Worth a look.

[Cort Haus]

Please check the RP log to see Arnelos' and Togas' messages, which I also posted in the turn 162 thread.

GoW, it seems, are pushing RP for longer-term commitments which we need to be aware of. This is maybe understandable, but tedious and complicated. A simple peace, such as we signed should be it for starters but RP want something from GoW, so GoW want something back.

For the above reasons, and the development path of RP - decisions on cash or research, short term and long, we need to chat. Arnelos says he's available this weekend. Some of us should try and hook up with some of them.

As I said elsewhere, many RP-ers are West Coast - not a good time zone for me.

[DeepO]

RP should not expect more in return for peace. With them staying at war, they keep any possible fallout of the bobians from happening. As to whether we return to Bob to fight: possible, but only if we can seize an opportunity, or have Marines or tanks available. So no, not in the next 20 turns...

and a chat would be good, if possible... but my time-zone is even worse then yours

DeepO

[Cort Haus]

RP know - from us and by working it out themselves - that full closure of the old war is needed to shake up the bag and start the next one (GS strategy). It's just a matter of how long before cold reason overtakes hot emotion.

Perhaps we should now say to RP that we are constructing a plan to build the ToE in about 60 turns, followed by the Hoover Dam 10 turns after that. We will not likely be going to war before then, and we need RP gold to achieve it. They should make a simple, in-game peace (no clauses) soon with the Bobians to close one chapter and facilitate the opening of the next.

They give us the gold we need to maintain research pace, and with the rest they rush cash and growth improvements first, while we give them tech. Then they build science improvements, which should give them the ability to fully research some tech later on in Industrial. Once we give them Banking, they should do Democracy at 40-turn, with which we can rapidly complete our rails.

[DeepO]

I'm not sure we have to be so specific in our projection of goals, otherwise I agree with you. Mentioning that one of the few chances we have for winning this game is to get serious about reaching ToE first, and that in order to do that we need all their cash should be enough, I guess.

DeepO

[Cort Haus]

Should we ask for all their cash - or just what we need to keep a good pace? Them being able to rush improvements will feel better for them would pay back well over time.

True, we don't have to be so specific in explaining our goals to RP.

[vulture]

Just enough to keep our science slider where we want it for out 29 turn to the industrial era plan (with with one or two extra per turn to allow us a little slack do to overlooked changes in city sizes, just in case). They can use the extra cash better themselves at the moment, preparing to research at better than 40 turn pace in the industrial era (e.g. going for industrialisation, sanitation, communism).

[DeepO]

vulture... as I mentioned in the other thread, they don't need research. It would be most efficient if they focus solely on cash buildings, and never build a single lib.

As to how much cash we ask for: not everything, but close... we don't need it now as we can get to banking in 4, but after that all turns we can gain on our research are good. We should avoid that they use everything on rushing, and in 30 turns time have nothing left to build (if they don't build science stuff).

DeepO

[Cort Haus]

I think they should start with cash builds, then switch to science so they can research a tech or two later into the era, after enabling our dash for the ToE.

We do need RP gold immediately to keep Banking on pace - we're on a defecit of about 20gpt with 60g in the tin.

[DeepO]

Originally posted by Cort Haus
I think they should start with cash builds, then switch to science so they can research a tech or two later into the era, after enabling our dash for the ToE.

But why? every beaker they produce is one less gold. And every gold we receive from them means one more beaker.

As long as we don't bump into the 4-turn limit (and that's way off), letting them do their own research is just as efficient as gifting us their gold, and we do it for them.

But, there are a few advantages to them going only for gold: they don't need to build libs (so no shield costs), they don't have to pay upkeep for their libs, and gold is an easier resource to manage then beakers. So... most effeciently, they give us their gold, we give them our techs. And both will get the techs faster then if we separate the tasks.

Oh, and they can have relatively 'free' 40-turn techs as well, from time to time.

DeepO

[vmxa1]

I have agree with DeepO, but we can benefit from them do a single scientist on techs we will skip. That is the only way to get two techs.

I am not sure why we keep going over the peace aspect. We already told them are position. I find that pushing and repeating things that people don't want to hear is counterproductive. It tends to prevents them from cooling down.