GoW- Diplomacy comments #2

[DeepO]

GoW doesn't need Nav, it needs lux. And don't worry about RP, they're not going to sell their incense if we ask them not too.

What I especially like about that, is that it will bring a lot of our cities in WLTKD, fighting corruption. That 8th lux is important to us. Which is BTW perhaps one of the most important reasons to keep ND happy: we need their lux if we don't want to pay an arm and a leg on happiness... I wouldn't want to need to start buyilding cathedrals everywhere half way in our invasion.

DeepO

[Cort Haus]

We'd need Cathedrals and Sistine to keep the metros happy if we were at war with ND.

[DeepO]

Sistine would take us 8 turns in one of our best cities, maybe less... We can't build it when in mobilization, though (not even rushing it)

Would maybe be an idea when ending the war with Lego: build sistine, build cath's, and go straight for MAs. Let's just start the first one, though

DeepO

[DeepO]

regarding last message:

I can understand GoW is worried. We should also start a disscussion on how to proceed here.

I thought, that Sci Meth was already theirs, for their help in us getting ToE. Further, we're more or less equal in tech, once refining is exchanged for steel (and we want to keep refining for as long as possible).

They want to pay for AT and electronics, and that's superb. However, only at the last possible moment should we give those techs to them! So my feeling is that we have to agree on a timeline for invasion of Lego first, and couple those techs and the price of them to that.

DeepO

[Cort Haus]

Yes, DeepO, my thoughts on this were similar to yours. I'll send a reassurance that we'll supply these techs and suggest we need a convergance date.

I reckon that GS and GoW must strike Lego from East and West simultaneously to succeed. Picket ships must be knocked out all round Lego so they can't stuff coastal cities with all their units on one side.

[vulture]

Since we need GoW to have tanks for this to work, we kind of have to make some sort of deal for atomic theory and electronics (I'd forgotten that MT still has these as a prerequisite in this game). But in order to keep some kind of advantage from ToE (aside from Hoover, which is no mean prize) I think we ought to go for some kind of longer than usual NDA.

We might need to offer one or both of these very cheaply or virtually free to ND to keep them out of the war. Lets learn from the mistakes of the Bob war - GoW and ND weren't willing to offer enough to keep us on side, so we ended up against them, despite the fact that our plans and emotions were heading the other way. ND may want to see Lego taken down a bit, but if Lego realises we and GoW are against them, they are going to be able to offer ND some serious bribery to take their side. We need to pre-empt that - we can get away with a somewhat lower offer if we get in first and have the loyalty factor playing on our side.

Since GoW are the easiest targets for ND is they do go with Lego, we should explain this thinking to them (assuming that everyone agrees with me, that is). Actually, it might be worth giving (selling) e.g. Atomic Theory to GoW so that they can give it to ND - hopefully giving ND more of the impression that this is a joint GoW-GS plan (they're getting paid off by both of us to keep away from Lego's side).

[DeepO]

vulture, I think a perpetual NDA, or a 40-turn NDA would be the same, and adequate. Once Lego is gone, only Vox remains, and they should fall quickly.

We can't keep ND from getting the techs, however, we need to discuss this with GoW. All the money we can get out of ND for these 3 techs (they are not to be given SM for nothing!) should go to the war, and especially towards us still racing ahead in tech once we are invading: I would want us in the modern ages asap.

As to selling AT to Gow, so they can sell it to ND: no thanks. We need GoW as allies, however, we're not without risk either. We might need their friendschip as well. Let GoW handle their own threats, the only thing we should be concerned about is to get them to attack Lego instead of us. If there is another Bobian war, we should be fully preprared to take advantage of it, without taking sides.

DeepO

[vulture]

I practical terms, I think you're right that a 40 turn NDA is pretty much the same as a perpetual one - if we haven't sold the techs to ND by then, something has gone wrong.

I do think we need to make strong efforts to ensure ND neutrality of alliegence. They are willing to work to cut Lego out, as long as we make good deals. We've messed up with this once before though - and they're basically going to buy off whoever gives them a better deal (and favour us if it close). But we have to be prepared for the fact that Lego are going to offer some very nice deals if they are attacked by GoW and ND.

We might just be more vulnerable to ND attack that GoW are. As we all know, they could gut our core cities and trash our good wonders without too much trouble, especially if we have the bulk of our forces off attacking Lego.

Worse, they can get the best of both worlds, by waiting until we gut Lego, and then doing the same to us. Lego is crippled by the combined strike, and then we are essentially removed from the game, leaving ND vs GoW as the final matchup entering the modern era. And with ND having been geting techs on the cheap from all sides, they'll have the cash to rush and upgrade a good sized army - plus they are better placed and better developed than GoW.

Once again, I'm thinking out loud, and rather straying from my original line of thought.

GoW can't out-research ND. GoW plus GS can, and Lego can. It's in ND's favour to let us trash Lego. It is then very much in their favour to quickly cripple us with a marine / tank / cavalry invasion which we can't do much about. They are then in pole position, and only need to fight a defensive war against GoW to be able to build their way to an SS win (barring some revenge voting for GoW in the UN, or some other weird ploy).

Lego is the big bad now, but ND could very quickly take over that job if they are aware of their opportunity and quick to act. Lets hope they are feeling peaceful.

[DeepO]

damn, saw the GoW msg too late. I already sent them combustion. In case we replay, I will correct it, otherwise just ask them to renegotiate the trade, accept, and once it is our turn, we can close the deal.

They did send the 3000 gold unaccepted, BTW

DeepO

[DeepO]

never mind, Made a mistake and am correcting it right now.

DeepO

[DeepO]

last message from MZ to us is great news: we get flight even without asking, and it will be perfectly timed as well

Further: ND spying for us isn't going to work, we'll have to spy ourselves. ND is behind us in turn order, not in front of us.

Does anyone know if, with a spy, you can spy on specific cities during a war? I know embassy spying is not possible, but spy-spying? Otherwise, we're going to need to steal their complete plans, which will most likely be very costly.

DeepO

[DeepO]

Come to think of it: we need a CIA built... can this be done during mobilization?

DeepO

[Cort Haus]

They can at least uncover much of the Lego map by spying in the meantime.

That point about the Intel Agency is a good one. Damn - I don't suppose you can build any wonders under Mob, can you - I'll check.

[Cort Haus]

I checked. In fact, you can build the CIA, as well as Battlefield Medicine, Pentagon, Miltary Academy under Mobilisation.

However, there's more - I'll post all on the Defense Thread.

[vmxa1]

Yes that note from MZ is either great news or the best act of deceit I have seen.