GoW- Diplomacy comments #2

[Arrian]

We get coastal RP and a part of ND's lands, RP gets the SW, and GoW gets part of ND?

I could live with that.

-Arrian

[Arrian]

They have a NAP with ND. I suggest we ask how much longer it lasts. They may not be able to tell us, but there is little harm in trying.

-Arrian

[notyoueither]

They have told us previously that they have no NAP with ND. Would whatever they say now be the truth?

[Aeson]

I got the impression they had an agreement with ND that would include a NAP until RP was destroyed. That's why I think their proposal would be "Let us destroy RP quickly, you get in place, and we both attack ND". They can't attack ND until RP is gone. (without breaking the agreement)

[Arrian]

Oh, I think Aeson has it.

Hmm... that does pose a problem for us. We've dedicated ourselves to saving RP.

Whatever. GoW's reaction is good for us. For now, at least, we only have to fight ND's troops.

-Arrian

[Aeson]

[19:34] *notyoueither* could i ask, how extensive are your agreements with nd?

[19:34] *UnOrthOdOx* Right now, to take out RP.
[19:35] *UnOrthOdOx* Beyond that, there is nothing.
[19:35] *UnOrthOdOx* Not even an NAP.
[19:35] *UnOrthOdOx* Which is why we wanted you on the island...

I guess you could read that as there is no NAP, but I read it as there is no NAP beyond the one included in the 'take out RP' deal. Meaning that once RP is gone, all bets are off.

[DeepO]

yeahm that's what they said before: no MPP, but NAP until RP is gone. They needed us for assurance that the turn the war ended, they were not attacked.

As to their last message: I would respond negatively to that, but I don't know the timing (i.e. after they passed the save along). They seem to realize we are not going to stop before ND is gone, and if they would have attacked, the same would have happened to them.

Going back to previous message (I know see the screenshot, not this afternoon): Why do they ask to park on Bilbao4? The only real way out of there would go Bilbao 12, meaning they would go towards NM. We should respond to them that we preferred them staying out of our territory, even temporary, os also not passing us and ending their turn outside. Otherwise, we can't block them, even if we get both Toledo and NM, they can still attack Pamplona.

These guys are trying hard not to piss us off, and I appreciate that. The end result will be the same, though. And telling them our goal is RP's protection seems a bit obvious, we could say something along the lines of: "we were not interested in a 2-civ Bob, if that meant both of those civs would have nearly double the amount of tiles as us. We explained that before, but our requests were not taken seriously, and the negotiation was stalled. we're sorry, but now we have other obligations to fulfill"

I don't want them nagging all game long, we know we're not going to accept any of their deals. They have stalled us for sure, we don't need to stall them indefinately.

DeepO

[DeepO]

hmmm.. cross post. And Aeson even has the quote in

DeepO

[asleepathewheel]

GoW needs to move the turn on. They are now way over the limit. Granted RP held if for what, 3 days? but poly was done for much of that and they were taken by suprise. I suppose that GoW was thrown enough by us that they don't know what to do. Perhaps they are waiting for us to give word to ND about santiago or to give word to them camping out near bilbao. Or perhaps they are in negotiaitions with RP to attack either ND or us. Or perhaps they are holding the save hostage for punitive reasons due to RPs actions. That would be quite childish, but I wouldn't put it past GF to do that. I have seen numerous GoW posts in the past few hours, so why can' tthey play and send the turn, something is afoot.

[notyoueither]

We must wait til after this next turn of ours before beginning to reveal any more than has been. The reason for that is that if GoW dither on their turn, and move as indicated to us that they would, then Toledo is safe in our hands, now. That means that RP can gift the city to us after moving their stack into it, and that stack will make Pamplona safe.

Beyond that, I am not sure. If we make it clear to GoW that we are now the defenders of Spain, we will provoke them to immediate attack, or would we?

We could continue to say that ND is the focus of our attention, due to their xenophobic responses to Vox and then us about Bob. That would work.

The question is, would our power and GoW's waryness of us outweigh their hatred for Spain and make them back off if we reveal our plans to defend Spain? If they would back off, then we should tell them. However, telling them may start the war with them prematurely.

[DeepO]

Do we really need to make it so obvious that we're the defenders of RP? I mean, they asked for it, but do we have to give our long-term plans? We could simply say: "we took the cities to see if we would get attacked. We were attacked, so we will secure some territory on Bob for us, territory you guys were not going to, or were not fast enough in giving to us. Whatever deal between us and RP exists doesn't matter, as we're defending ourselves for the moment. And we don't know where it will lead from here"

DeepO

[Theseus]

Re the GoW / ND relationship: GoW is clearly under contract... the scope of the contract must include attacking RP and not attacking ND (not quite the same as an NAP), but the depth and length of the obligation is obviously defined by the contract, SOLELY, and does not extend to the 'moral' and 'morale' levels of a strategic relationship.

Re communication and our future relationship with GoW: Either we act like the Borg, or we must in some way communicate with them in the not too distant future. I suggest we avoid discussion of RP (as they are no longer a game threat), and focus on our possibly joint actions upon ND and / or Lego.

[notyoueither]

DeepO, I think you just solidified it. We wanted to see who would attack. ND has chosen war, we will give them war.

[notyoueither]

Proposed message to GoW.

re Your request to cross the territory of Bilbao.

We regret that we must deny permission for any forces to cross our territory, which has recently been enlarged to include Toledo. We are at war with neither RP nor GoW. We do not wish to advantage either side through access to that land.


re UnOrthOdOx's memo of July 23.

There is much to think on. He mentions concluding your current contract swiftly and embarking on a new one. Is this a serious possibility? What is required to conclude your contract?

Our intentions re RP are not fully concrete as of yet. We are inclined to look favourably on a civ who has welcomed us to Bob. As of this point, our goals in the conflict would be to finish what other people start.

[asleepathewheel]

On MZ's thinly veiled threats:

They're complaining about not trusting us? Two words: Doctored Screenshots. Do we need to remind them that they haven't exactly been square with us in the past? After all they were paid to attack us.

Personally I think we should go out of our way to antagonize them and get them to declare war on us. I think toledo goes a long way towards that. no one likes to feel impotent (not that I would know ) and that is exactly what they are feeling. 14 riders and nowhere to go.