Turn 100, 570BC

[Shiber]

Originally posted by FrustratedPoet
That's what I'm afraid of too, and I think it's a real possibility that we'll see some stacks of galleys appearing on our West coast in a few turns time.

Actually, we can deal with reinforcements from galleys better than we can deal with reinforcements coming south through the spinebreakers.
If they choose to deliver additional reinforcements from galleys, they'll have to get through our own galleys first, since we're blocking their way. They'll have to destroy two galleys, and they'll need to use empty galleys for that job, since they don't want to risk galleys with cargo. Their best-case scenario is sinking one of our galleys with no loss of HP, sinking the second and then grabbing the troops and unloading them to our shores before our next galley can get them (which I don't think is even possible). And it's more likely that they'll lose one galley in the progress, which would set them back by a few turns, and force them to build another galley instead of more troops.
They probably won't take such high stakes and continue using the old method of marching through the spinebreakers. I think it's very possible that they'll try to bring as many immortals as possible to the mountain between Tempest and Arashi (and this is the sole reason why they are holding it right now). I think they have no idea of how many catapults we have. I also think that we need more of those, along with MedInfs.

[nbarclay]

I checked, and our Sufa galley can't pick up units until two turns after this one. So we can switch EotS to horsemen now and have Hurricane produce enough pikes in time to load a pair of units on the galley when it's ready.

Another possibility (albeit not a smart one) for why Vox delayed might be to get the extra two immortals ready to attack Sandstorm from both sides at once. If that was their plan, though, they lost almost as much to cat hits as they'll gain from extra units (especially since the two extras are regulars), and we'll have an extra Tornado medieval infantry and an extra EotS horseman to counterattack with.

[nbarclay]

I'm starting to think we might be better off not going after Vox's galley. If we can get through the war (either until victory or until we make peace) without a naval battle, that avoids the risk of losing a galley we might want to use against Bob later. And if we attack and the RNG turns against us, we'd lose our threat against further Voxian galley operations.

[Shiber]

Originally posted by notyoueither
Do we sink the Vox scow?

I don't know... this is definitely an option.
Another option is to set up a blockade. Currently they can get around our galleys through sea and end the turn in safe coastal waters. Not that they'd do that with a galley full of immortals, they won't take that chance, but I really don't know. Anyway, we can effectively block them off by moving one of our two galleys 8, 9, 6 or 3 (I'd suggest 8, since this will let us see one tile further into Voxian waters).
If we set up such a blockade, they'd need two galleys and luck to break through - one empty galley to kill one of our blockading galleys (they wouldn't risk a full galley in combat, of course), and the other to carry the cargo and break through. But then we'd have a shot at their cargo galley with our remaining galley next turn.

[Arrian]

I don't see a need to kill Vox's galley. I DO want to engage GoW's galley, if we can catch it.

I agree we should move one of our galleys so we can see their road.

If it looks like they're defending their road properly, we may (as you pointed out) need to use more units than just 1 galley load. In that case, I think we should just go all the way and do Inchon.

-Arrian

[Shiber]

Originally posted by nbarclay
Vox's galley stayed the same place

Theory: Vox already sees 2 GS galleys (which is probably more than what they currently have, considering that they'd rather build immortals than galleys and the infrequency of Vox galley sightings) and knows that there may be more out there. They have realized that dropping reinforcements from their galley on our shores is not an option anymore, since we have a good chance at sinking the cargo with the ships, and now their sole galley is good for almost nothing.
Realizing that, they must hope for us to attack them - they don't care about their galley anymore, but we might lose a galley that poses a threat to Vox in the process.

Nathan: I think you're right, but following the same logic, we shouldn't risk a galley to try to chase and attack GoW's galley. Not that it matters, though - I think we can't catch it anymore, if it's going to Port Isolation.

[nbarclay]

I'd rather not split our galleys, for two reasons. (1) If the galleys remain together, Vox has to worry a little more about the possibility that one might have troops on it. (2) If Vox does manage to get two galleys together, they wouldn't have a chance to wound one with their first attack and then get a second attack against a healthy galley (although we could probably negate that risk by scouting forward and then pulling back each turn).

By the way, one of the wilder possibilities for what to do with our eastern galleys would be to fake an attack at Vox's core. I'm not sure whether that would do more good or more harm, but it would almost certainly cause Vox a bit of concern.

[notyoueither]

Originally posted by nbarclay
I'm starting to think we might be better off not going after Vox's galley. If we can get through the war (either until victory or until we make peace) without a naval battle, that avoids the risk of losing a galley we might want to use against Bob later. And if we attack and the RNG turns against us, we'd lose our threat against further Voxian galley operations.

I am thinking that myself. The threat of sinking them is more effective at shutting down their ferry service than attacking and losing. That would be harsh if we lost 2 of ours and left them with an elite. It would be good to go for them when we have 3 to 1 odds.

So, just park and wait for the troop ship? Being fortified may have an effect. I've never figured that out.

[notyoueither]

And if we stay parked there, we tie down all those Vox troops. Hehe.

[notyoueither]

Originally posted by nbarclay
By the way, one of the wilder possibilities for what to do with our eastern galleys would be to fake an attack at Vox's core. I'm not sure whether that would do more good or more harm, but it would almost certainly cause Vox a bit of concern.

I would not like to lose contact with the Vox galley and let it behind us. We really do not need another couple of Immortals north of Hurricane at the moment.

[Shiber]

I would have voted for faking a landing attempt in Vox's core if we weren't actually planning one. In any case, it'd also get them into building defensive units earlier, which is bad for us since we want to meet minimal resistance when we switch to offense.

[alexman]

Originally posted by notyoueither
Being fortified may have an effect. I've never figured that out.

Ships do not get the fortification bonus, but they do get the 10% terrain defensive bonus. Just verified by testing.

[Shiber]

If we choose to park, can we at least move one of the galleys 8-4-6-2 to get a glimpse further into Voxian waters and return?

[nbarclay]

I went ahead and moved a galley 8-4. Vox has a vet spear and a "Hoover the Deep Cleaner" (regular immortal) sitting on the road, so we can't do a pike landing directly on the road. I'm tempted to park both our galleys there and dare Vox to leave a tile undefended in that area. And if their galley tries to move south, our speed advantage would let us intercept it.

If we want to cut off Vox's iron, I see three main possibilities.

1) Land a pair of pikes on Grog's Mountain, and follow up with medieval infantry to break onto the road.

2) Use an Inchon approach, landing a settler and a bumch of pikes either near Elipolis or on the grassland by the colony.

3) Use a hybrid approach, prepositioning pikes on Grog's Mountain and then, if Vox doesn't let them onto the road, using them to reinforce the Inchon operation the moment the city is built. Note that the pikes could move from the mountain onto galleys and then unload from the galleys in the city all in one turn (albeit with no movement left), which would give us a phenominally well-defended Inchon if we're willing to build enough pikes. Of course our landing would be a lot more vulnerable the turn our troops land, before the city is built.

[Arrian]

Thanks for that, alex

I figured as much. I have always done better by allowing the AI to attack my galleys than vice-versa. The 10% bonus is why when I attack, I most often take the enemy galley to 1hp, and then die. :sad:

No need to kill them. I say move one to peek at the road, but move it back, so at the end of the turn, we're status quo in the NE.

I would like to hunt the GoW galley in the West, though. IMO, finding and attacking their galley is worth the risk of losing the fight.

Military considerations aside, the shock value is great too. They open their turn, and their galley simply isn't there anymore.

-Arrian