Turn 100, 570BC

[Aeson]

Thank you. I will put away my slapping hand.

Ah.. but I'm sure you could find some use for it once I start defining when Vox has stopped being a threat.

[nbarclay]

If I'm Vox, I hit Arashi and hope GS focused its forces on defending Tempest. That's where I can bring the most of my forces to bear, and if I can win there, I have clear sailing to bring reinforcements down near GS's heartland. It's the only real chance I have left. Taking EotS with six healthy immortals and a wounded one is next to impossible when I have to cross flatlands to do it, and as long as GS controls Arashi, getting reinforcements down to my big stack takes way too long.

If I've already given up all hope of victory, I might go for Sandstorm as my best chance of taking out one GS city before I die. But I know what happened to six of my units last time I came down off the mountains, so even assuming I have survivors to take Sandstorm, I can expect to lose enough in the process that I'll never be able to seriously threaten GS again. It's a "go out in a blaze of glory" move, pure and simple.

[notyoueither]

Originally posted by Aeson


Ah.. but I'm sure you could find some use for it once I start defining when Vox has stopped being a threat.

It is being held in reserve.

[Aeson]

Tempest is at 15 shields a turn. That puts us at:

0/120: 960g
15/120: 420g
30/120: 360g
45/120: 300g
60/120: 240g
75/120: 180g
90/120: 120g
105/120: 60g
120/120: 0g

The best options for short rushing would be:

15->30 (Temple/Horse/Pike), 60g, cuts off 1 turn
15->60 (Cathedral/Musket), 180g, cuts off 3turns

So it's not very well set up. To get to the Cathedral we'd need the Temple... to get to the Musket... well we need a few techs.

Of course if we have the Workers to add, each turn we build the Aquaduct sooner is +10 shields to overall production. At 40g worth of shields per turn increase, it becomes a much cheaper rush from an efficiency standpoint. Especially when added commerce is factored in. It basically ends up costing less than 20g per turn of the build saved.

More wasteful short rushes might not be a bad idea.

15->80 (Library/Courthouse), 260g, cuts off 4 turns.

... If only we could build Infantry! Then we could rush to 90...

-----------------------

Looking at it like this, I think the Marketplaces in EotS and Hurricane should take precidence over the Aquaduct in Tempest as 'peaceful' building projects.

[Aeson]

I agree with your take on SS Nathan. It's a 'give up and take your consolation prize' type move.

They still could seriously threaten Arashi if they just fortify and that road completes. If they have 5-10 Immortals to come over the Mountains the first turn... it's still not enough though. Our Cats will have seriously damaged their S stack, freeing up Tempest Pikes to go to Arashi. Not to mention their N stack has to either waste another turn, or land on the flats.

In short, I don't see any good moves for them. The time to strike for SS was last turn. The turn before was the time to hit Arashi.

[Aeson]

If we went max shields, how much could Tempest produce at size 6?

[nbarclay]

If we get Tempest to 80 shields, we should be able to get the last 20 in a single turn running a food deficit. (Edit: No, I wasn't answering your question; it was just a fortuitous crosspost. )

[Aeson]

How long could we run at the 20 shields in a food deficit? Tempest doesn't run a deficit at size 12... so it doesn't need any extra food.

[nbarclay]

If Vox had kept their main stack together and reinforced Arashi 9, now would be the perfect time to hit Arashi. The need for us to hold Tempest would more than make up for the extra time they gave us to build troops - unless we were willing to bet Tempest's survival on Vox choosing Arashi as their target. And even then, we'd need a pike in Tempest to put on a show for them, partially negating the advantage we can get from the extra time. I'm really, really glad Vox decided to send those five immortals and a spearman where we could get them instead.

[asleepathewheel]

It will be interesting to see why Vox made that decision.

Is it due to the undervaluation of WCs? They thought they were much stronger than we were?

Or they expected us to build mainly defenders, thus not being able to attack their stack?

They thought we couldn't attack the two immortal stacks simultaneously (and the GoW units to boot )?


Vox has certainly showed some moxy in this war, showing that they are competent in playing at least the AI and probably most humans.

I just wonder what would have happened had they used that galley to ferry over 20 immortals to, say, the iron deposit, thus bypassing Grog. I guess they figured we couldn't respond in time...

[nbarclay]

I'm not going to reopen a save this late at night just to run "what-if" calculations. Ask me again when we get the next turn, or maybe someone else will be in a mood to check it out before then. (Note that at the end of Turn 100, we'll have an extra mine at Arashi 1-1 and thus be able to produce more without cannibalizing other cities too mcuh.)

One thing to keep in mind, though: if we run too much of a sustained deficit, we can't take advantage of the city's natural growth to get it up to size 7 in a timely manner.

[nbarclay]

Remember that we had a lookout on the east coast too, so Vox had to stage north of where we were watching. Their original plan called for landing two immortals by galley, which would travel overland, and bringing in four more immortals by ship to reinforce those. That's about as much as they could hope to do in a timely manner. Our WCs spoiled their plan, killing one of the immortals that were supposed to travel overland and forcing their galley to pick up and deliver the second. That, in turn, delayed their final wave of immortals a little. So instead of facing the six immortals we were supposed to, we only have to face five, and two of those five are at least a turn behind where they were supposed to be. Really, more immortals on the east coast wouldn't have made a lot of sense with just one galley to ferry them; it takes too long, and it would have pulled forces away from the western front where their larger force was. Also note that Vox had no clue exactly where our iron was until their immortals came south a bit from their landing position; for all they knew, it was in the West instead of the East.

[Aeson]

No problem. I think we'd be running a 4 food deficit and we're full now at 20 food. That would give us 5 turns. Might be worth the extra Worker to build it in 4-5 turns with only a 60 or 120g rush

I just noticed that I have 1879 posts.. and only ~700 of them are in public forums...

[asleepathewheel]

Originally posted by nbarclay
Remember that we had a lookout on the east coast too, so Vox had to stage north of where we were watching. Their original plan called for landing two immortals by galley, which would travel overland, and bringing in four more immortals by ship to reinforce those. That's about as much as they could hope to do in a timely manner. Our WCs spoiled their plan, killing one of the immortals that were supposed to travel overland and forcing their galley to pick up and deliver the second. That, in turn, delayed their final wave of immortals a little. So instead of facing the six immortals we were supposed to, we only have to face five, and two of those five are at least a turn behind where they were supposed to be. Really, more immortals on the east coast wouldn't have made a lot of sense with just one galley to ferry them; it takes too long, and it would have pulled forces away from the western front where their larger force was. Also note that Vox had no clue exactly where our iron was until their immortals came south a bit from their landing position; for all they knew, it was in the West instead of the East.

No, I meant they could travel from their iron deposit in a southwesterly direction, avoiding grog and ending in dissidentville. I think they could have done that without detection.


edit: I should add that they could have moved into D'ville if there had been a road through the jungle. There isn't, I don't think, but if there was, they could avoide detection heading SW.

[Aeson]

They did that to a limited extent I think. But it takes a lot of time for them... and their Immortals were getting close to being made obsolete.