Battle Report - discussion

[Kloreep]

Originally posted by vondrack
And that is why I have been turning down all Beta's proposals to join a new PBEM 'just you, me, and few cool guys' in such a determined way...

I hate seeing my empire ripped apart. And having it ripped apart more than once, I do not really wish to make anyone else feel the same.

Come to think of it, I'd probably have a problem doing it even to the poor AI now...

Do a cooperative PBEM. I had fun with BF and Togas ripping a few Deity AIs apart. (And with so few players, the game actually FINISHED a while ago! )

[Modo44]

Or, do a diplogame.

If a cooperative PBEM, then make sure to go insane, so you will be forced to cooperate.

[DeepO]

Originally posted by vondrack
That's it. Let's leave the rest for the AAR.

I will, I'm sorry to have started this too early.

BTW, I did not meant that you were complaining, nor any of your team was complaining. If that was how I sounded, my apologies. It's just that I don't like to hear (even if it was no complaint) that because of settler biltzing, game mechanics ruled, and not strategy. It was strategy that made it possible to use game mechanics, even if by design they are flawed. Like I said in my initial post, we had no choice, given the opportunity we had to press on. Infinite defensive movement over railroads is just as well a design flaw... nobody complained about that either.

DeepO

[Theseus]

Great attitude all around, guys.

I'd just like to chime in that winning in Civ, whether SP or MP, takes a combination of building, strategy, diplomacy, etc. (obviously), and that part of that is in fact all about leveraging an understanding of game mechanics (again, obviously).

GS would not be effectively in the game at all without two great builderish episodes (at the beginning and post-Bob): the best application of an understanding of game mechanics I perhaps have ever seen.

And GS would much less be where we currently stand without strong strategy as well: Vondrack, my hat is off to you and your team, in that your defense was masterful up until the breakthrough.

[Beta]

Originally posted by vondrack

The tragedy is that a single mistake like this can wreck one's game in this way.

Made me think back to a certain warrior who did not cover a certain landing spot north-west of Elipolis.

And if alva hasn't bought you enough beer, Vondrack, here have another one.

[Beta]

Originally posted by vondrack
And that is why I have been turning down all Beta's proposals to join a new PBEM 'just you, me, and few cool guys' in such a determined way...

I hate seeing my empire ripped apart. And having it ripped apart more than once, I do not really wish to make anyone else feel the same.

Come to think of it, I'd probably have a problem doing it even to the poor AI now...

How about a deity succession game???? (Beta's latest idea to try and get Vondrack into a pbem of some sort...)

[vondrack]

You could not have chosen a worse moment, Bruce...

[DeepO]

Originally posted by Beta

Made me think back to a certain warrior who did not cover a certain landing spot north-west of Elipolis.

Yeah... that was getting a bit too lucky. But we had a backup plan when the hill would have been covered... Inchoff would have done the same job, only less galantly.

At least you've got yourself a new shiny empire. Sadly, that is no option anymore for Legoland. Or perhaps RP wants to make a bit of room on Estonia, I'm sure 2 empires can fit on that excellent piece of fertile land

Oh, and Radek, don't for a minute think I wouldn't offer you a beer as well... but 1 Belgian buying you beer might be more than enough... we tend to like the stuff more than is good for us. Or good for our companions.

DeepO

[Hot_Enamel]

Just wanted to put in my 2c.
I been reading this thread 4-5 times a day, but never got the chance to respond.

Congratulations to GS. Very well played.
Commiserations to Lego. Brilliant play by your team. That fort city to stop our settler was an excellent move.
Well played by MZ as well, who has been carrying GoW by himself for such a long time.
I'd say a lot of our GoW members still checked the forums (I know I did) but have pretty much stayed silent since the Roleplay war finished.
(And to vote in the "Who should we invade next poll?")

Just back on the 4 city "Spearhead" thingy.
I think even GS has underestimated how powerful a foothold like that is.
As I understand it, GS only wanted 4 cities on Bob, as a safeguard to stop any Bobian team from invading them.
It reminded me, that GoW did enter discussions with GS about letting them have 4 cities.
Our only condition was that GoW be allowed to have 4 cities on their continent.
This offer was quickly knocked back by GS though. (iirc, ND wasn't happy about it either)
Basically, we refused to allow GS any territory on Bob, for the exact same reason they refused to allow us any territory on their continent.
- Way too much trust is required to believe that they wouldn't be used as an invasion point.

Extreme combat settling.
I had the absolute guilts for weeks after I used that tactic in the DON PBEM.
It's nasty. Overpowering. But unfortunately... a valid tactic.
The only defence, is to pillage roads or build a bunch of well defended fort cities I guess...
Either way.. everyone knew about it's use, so no-one can begrudge GS for using it.
Not that I think anyone really is...
We should be allowed to express our feeling about a manoeuvre without it being taken as an attack on another teams tactics.
I hate it as well, but definately also brought it up as a tactic in the GoW in our forums.

And finally, like Vondrack, I have also stopped entering into PBEM's.
There are too many flaws in this game....valid game mechanic exploits ???
And it's disheartening to see everything crumble around you after putting so much effort into it.
And this isn't limited to seeing your civ destroyed in one turn.
The map generator gives me the absolute sh1ts as well. (No uranium ??!!!??? - wtf)
Giving Lego that huge continent at turn one was what painted a huge red cross on them before anything else.

After the fiasco of the DON PBEM, I lost all interest in playing any more multiplayer civ.
I was spending 2-3 hours each turn in DON.
Vondrack was spending double that.
And in the end, it came to me using a cheesy... Pre-turn change production to marine, transport chain, combat settler combo to hook up a uranium deposit in the middle of Vondracks territory pull off a magical space ship win.


So... congrats to all players on all sides of the conflict.
It's awesome to see first hand to read what goes through the elite players mind as they formulate strategies.
I refuse to learn to micromanage at that level, and thus why I will never play better than emperor.

[Hot Mustard]

Lego
GS

To all team members - 2 years!!!!!

Despite my low activity this year and RP being out of this some time ago, I will remember this game for a long time to come.

Thanks for the memories everyone!

Yes, I know, the game isn't technically over yet, but it seemed an appropriate time.

[ZargonX]

Giving Lego that huge continent at turn one was what painted a huge red cross on them before anything else.

That is a sad truth. It was a blessing, but we also knew it was ultimately a curse.

[DeepO]

Originally posted by Hot_Enamel
Just back on the 4 city "Spearhead" thingy.
I think even GS has underestimated how powerful a foothold like that is.
As I understand it, GS only wanted 4 cities on Bob, as a safeguard to stop any Bobian team from invading them.
It reminded me, that GoW did enter discussions with GS about letting them have 4 cities.
Our only condition was that GoW be allowed to have 4 cities on their continent.
This offer was quickly knocked back by GS though. (iirc, ND wasn't happy about it either)
Basically, we refused to allow GS any territory on Bob, for the exact same reason they refused to allow us any territory on their continent.
- Way too much trust is required to believe that they wouldn't be used as an invasion point.

Well... only partly right. You see, we couldn't give you our territory, when we were so obviously short in territory. However, we were fully prepared to attack RP, and as the talks progressed and we knew war was imminent, everything was prepared for an invasion. 4 cities was a gift from us, as we could have taken more of RPs cities than you and ND combined... which was what pissed us of. Also, to avoid them being looked at as offensive, we were prepared to show them empty, without defenders (I'm not sure if that was ever told to you, I think it was in that massive chat we had).

In the end, the two things that ticked us of, was from one side your comment of "hey, this negotiation is not finished, we've got several weeks to discuss this", when we were days from invading RP as we believed you were going to welcome our help. But the second thing was an emotional plea from nye, that it wasn't nice to gangbang on a team, where we had the biggest army by far, while both ND and GoW were going to have the best units. Even if RP was believed to be the best defensive empire, a 3-way gangbang didn't seemed right. So, in spite of our previous differences, we tried to feel out RP, who welcomed us as their saviours (something we didn't understand, as they were supposed to be able to handle at least one of the other Bobians with ease). Less than an hour later, I contacted Vondrack to ask if they wanted to help RP, as it seems they were at the brink of getting destroyed.

At a certain point, everyone was in chat. I was still talking to Vondrack, while the discussions with GoW and ND continue to rage. nye was talking to Togas (or Arnelos, I'm not sure anymore). GS was talking amongst each other, and I'm sure both GoW and ND did the same. In a few hours, we decided to do 'the right thing' (there was talk of taking out RP before ND or GoW came near, and fending you off, but that seemed impossible), and Lego couldn't commit at such short notice. 1 or 2 days later, we received the turn from RP, together with a couple of cities, unloaded the first bunch of knights, and off we went. Head first into a disaster. It was also one of the last times when we held an official chat.

Those 3 or 4, empty lux cities would have been such a good deal for us... oh well

DeepO

PS: this is how I remember it. It might have become a bit coloured over time... the PTWDG seems to do that to someone.

[Beta]

Originally posted by vondrack
You could not have chosen a worse moment, Bruce...

Beta gently twists the arm, while plying Vondrack with beer. Buck up, my friend. Karina will make it all right.

As Paddy would say ..."It's all good."

[Cort Haus]

/me hopes we don't reopen old wounds from the Bobian War now ...

[Hot_Enamel]

Originally posted by Cort Haus


* Cort Haus hopes we don't reopen old wounds from the Bobian War now ...

Definately not..
And not my intention.