A New Hope

[Aqualung71]

Originally posted by Paddy the Scot
That is cool, you are at war, and you want to sit on the lounge with the Desolators and drink beer and eat pretzels

Perhaps he seeks sanctuary in our lands because he doesn't want to be home when your armies come a-calling

I wonder if it's Aquarius he'd like to hide in......you know, that city that his Horsemen attacked a very short time ago?

[Rubychaser]

The benevolent ways of the Desolators
Always willing to share.

[snoopy369]

Plato - if you want to keep saying we betrayed you, just frickin' bring it to the table. Tell the rest of the world your 'evidence' for our betrayal.

Tell them about how you all misunderstood a single line of late-night chat from McMeadows:

McMeadows says:
You want us to attack with 3 wounded swordsmen

to mean we had only 3 swordsmen to our names, when it was referring only to our units in the field - and the later quote

McMeadows says:
we're not able to commit too many forces. LEaving home with the units we still have doesn't seem to feel all that good

makes that clear ...

Tell them how you decided that McMeadows refusing to commit yet more troops to the front so soon after the massacre at Mount Massacre - where we lost more troops in one turn then you've fought with the entire game - meant that we had no troops at all.

Tell them how you 'decided' out of the blue to (legally or illegally, we'll never know) city-scan us, to see if we had any troops.

Tell them how when we - indeed - did have some swordsmen, in a city on the eastern end of our nation, and nowhere near BoH, you decided that we were scheming to attack you.

Then tell them how you conspired to betray our tech alliance (which was recertified after the era end, symbolized by your agreement with McMeadows to work on monotheism 12 July), betray our military alliance, and betray our luxury trade agreement - and betray us entirely, by declaring war on your former allies. With no meaningful evidence of anything to your side, other than a quote that you misunderstood.

Tell them all of that - and then leave your bull**** about us starting this betrayal out of the ring. That, or post something meaningful, some actual evidence of betrayal - which you can't, because we were honest, trustworthy allies until you betrayed us.

And to 1889 - we appreciate the support, and look forward to working with you militarily if and when that becomes possible. The more nations that realize the dangers of the Betrayed Oath Horde, the safer the world shall be.

[Paddy]

Originally posted by snoopy369
Plato - if you want to keep saying we betrayed you, just frickin' bring it to the table. Tell the rest of the world your 'evidence' for our betrayal.

Tell them about how you all misunderstood a single line of late-night chat from McMeadows:

McMeadows says:
You want us to attack with 3 wounded swordsmen

to mean we had only 3 swordsmen to our names, when it was referring only to our units in the field - and the later quote

McMeadows says:
we're not able to commit too many forces. LEaving home with the units we still have doesn't seem to feel all that good

makes that clear ...

Tell them how you decided that McMeadows refusing to commit yet more troops to the front so soon after the massacre at Mount Massacre - where we lost more troops in one turn then you've fought with the entire game - meant that we had no troops at all.

Tell them how you 'decided' out of the blue to (legally or illegally, we'll never know) city-scan us, to see if we had any troops.

Tell them how when we - indeed - did have some swordsmen, in a city on the eastern end of our nation, and nowhere near BoH, you decided that we were scheming to attack you.

Then tell them how you conspired to betray our tech alliance (which was recertified after the era end, symbolized by your agreement with McMeadows to work on monotheism 12 July), betray our military alliance, and betray our luxury trade agreement - and betray us entirely, by declaring war on your former allies. With no meaningful evidence of anything to your side, other than a quote that you misunderstood.

Tell them all of that - and then leave your bull**** about us starting this betrayal out of the ring. That, or post something meaningful, some actual evidence of betrayal - which you can't, because we were honest, trustworthy allies until you betrayed us.

And to 1889 - we appreciate the support, and look forward to working with you militarily if and when that becomes possible. The more nations that realize the dangers of the Betrayed Oath Horde, the safer the world shall be.

Yes Plato, and tell them how our allies did not like answering questions on what units they had. Then tell them how they had heaps of opportunities to come good with said information. Oh and while your there tell them how much we care these days.

[Rubychaser]

mr snoopy369, did the big bad wolves take your city from you? them very very bad wolves mr snoopy369. best you let the bad vampires deal with them wolves.

[Aqualung71]

It seems snoopy finally understands the frustrations we felt when the good ol' TNA (including Euphorica) published lies, ongoing propaganda and fictitious excuses for going to war with us

[PLATO]

Originally posted by snoopy369
Plato - if you want to keep saying we betrayed you, just frickin' bring it to the table. Tell the rest of the world your 'evidence' for our betrayal.

You do a fair job below, but as is the practice of your nation, you leave out much!

Originally posted by snoopy369
Tell them about how you all misunderstood a single line of late-night chat from McMeadows:

McMeadows says:
You want us to attack with 3 wounded swordsmen

to mean we had only 3 swordsmen to our names, when it was referring only to our units in the field

Far from that being a true analysis! Let's consider more quotes from that chat to show the world the truth!

Paddy says:
We are also interested in hearing of when and what uints you will be sending south again.

and they type responses we kept getting:

McMeadows says:
Dear ally, I think we've been sticking out our necks more than enough

McMeadows says:
it seems we're done (EU)

Hardly the words of an allie with a secret army hidden far away from any route The Red Guard would travel.

Originally posted by snoopy369
- and the later quote

McMeadows says:
we're not able to commit too many forces. LEaving home with the units we still have doesn't seem to feel all that good

makes that clear ...

Tell them how you decided that McMeadows refusing to commit yet more troops to the front so soon after the massacre at Mount Massacre - where we lost more troops in one turn then you've fought with the entire game - meant that we had no troops at all.

and tell the world how we were not asking for any troop commitments!

Paddy says:
I am not actually asking for you to send troops now

Originally posted by snoopy369
Tell them how you 'decided' out of the blue to (legally or illegally, we'll never know) city-scan us, to see if we had any troops.

Out of the blue? After that chat with McM?

And then you insinuate that we have cheated? You called me to the table to present my case. Let's here yours on this matter...or is this more Euphorican twisting of the truth?

Your words just add to the reason the Euphorica must be eradicated. They are weak...as were the words of your alliance with us.

Originally posted by snoopy369
Tell them how when we - indeed - did have some swordsmen, in a city on the eastern end of our nation, and nowhere near BoH, you decided that we were scheming to attack you.

We have told them of the secret army you were building and hiding from our view...and about the catapults...and about the grainery...All the while showing us empty or lightly defended cities to support your case that you had sent "all you had"...all the while encouraging us to empty our lands to rush to finish a job that you so pitifully failed at.

Originally posted by snoopy369
Then tell them how you conspired to betray our tech alliance (which was recertified after the era end, symbolized by your agreement with McMeadows to work on monotheism 12 July), betray our military alliance, and betray our luxury trade agreement - and betray us entirely, by declaring war on your former allies. With no meaningful evidence of anything to your side, other than a quote that you misunderstood.

I am afraid that is just laughable. The treaties were handled according to wording your suggested. It is amazing that you have the gual to accuse us of betrayal when the evidence is clear that your sword was aimed at the heart of this alliance. You were given the required notice of ending the treaty under a clause your people had insisted on! We left your lands prior to declaring war.

Betrayal is a word that was foriegn to the Mongol language. It has now been entered in our dictionary as "Betrayal-See Euphorica"

Originally posted by snoopy369
Tell them all of that - and then leave your bull**** about us starting this betrayal out of the ring. That, or post something meaningful, some actual evidence of betrayal - which you can't, because we were honest, trustworthy allies until you betrayed us.

Excuse me? And you believe you can speak to me in that language, why?

We certainly had hopes that you would have been. The evidence presented here clearly shows that the above statement has absolutely zero merit.

Originally posted by snoopy369

And to 1889 - we appreciate the support, and look forward to working with you militarily if and when that becomes possible. The more nations that realize the dangers of the Betrayed Oath Horde, the safer the world shall be.

Yes, they do "look forward to working with you militarily"

They will scream for aid, get your armies away from your lands to fight their war, and then strike into your heart! As a vampire, I am sure you will come to understand their ways. The truth is, they offer a ray of sunshine unto your people!

1889, You have chosen the path of certain destruction. The Blood Oath Horde will destroy you if you persist in this war...unless the Euphoricans do it first. Your only hope is to remain nuetral. I suggest that you immediately reconsider who your allies are and look at the real evidence.

It matters not to The Horde. We have the power to deal with your nation. It is for the sake of the honest diplomacy you have conducted with us in the past that I issue this warning. If your desire is to be destroyed and thus leave this game, then war on...if you wish to build a civilization that can be an honest part of this world, then I suggest you reconsider your neutrality.

[1889]

Alliance members are now invited to join the Lost Boys forum.

[snoopy369]

Originally posted by PLATO

Paddy says:
We are also interested in hearing of when and what uints you will be sending south again.

and they type responses we kept getting:

McMeadows says:
Dear ally, I think we've been sticking out our necks more than enough

McMeadows says:
it seems we're done (EU)

Hardly the words of an allie with a secret army hidden far away from any route The Red Guard would travel.

As I stated, we had 5 swordsmen in our major city nearest DR, on the east. Nirvana. Not U2 or B64s, cities near BoH, but Nirvana, where we launch all of our attacks from. Away from any route you would travel indeed - why would we put it near you?

And if we wanted to hide it, sir, we'd have put it outside the city instead of in it. Please don't imply we're that dumb as to hide units inside a city ...

[q=plato]

Originally posted by snoopy369
- and the later quote

McMeadows says:
we're not able to commit too many forces. LEaving home with the units we still have doesn't seem to feel all that good

makes that clear ...

Tell them how you decided that McMeadows refusing to commit yet more troops to the front so soon after the massacre at Mount Massacre - where we lost more troops in one turn then you've fought with the entire game - meant that we had no troops at all.

and tell the world how we were not asking for any troop commitments!

Paddy says:
I am not actually asking for you to send troops now

[/q]

Sure. This is not the quote I refer to - but rather the quote further on down. I'm referring not to your demand of troop committments, but to your misinterpretation of a simple sentence.

[q=plato]

Originally posted by snoopy369
Tell them how you 'decided' out of the blue to (legally or illegally, we'll never know) city-scan us, to see if we had any troops.

Out of the blue? After that chat with McM?

And then you insinuate that we have cheated? You called me to the table to present my case. Let's here yours on this matter...or is this more Euphorican twisting of the truth?

Your words just add to the reason the Euphorica must be eradicated. They are weak...as were the words of your alliance with us.
[/q]

I do not know if you cheated or not. However, spending gold on city scans, certainly more than one unless you had some sort of inside knowledge - unlikely - is proof enough that you were untrustworthy in the first place. We never city-scanned you, not once, and never would.

[q=plato]

Originally posted by snoopy369
Tell them how when we - indeed - did have some swordsmen, in a city on the eastern end of our nation, and nowhere near BoH, you decided that we were scheming to attack you.

We have told them of the secret army you were building and hiding from our view...and about the catapults...and about the grainery...All the while showing us empty or lightly defended cities to support your case that you had sent "all you had"...all the while encouraging us to empty our lands to rush to finish a job that you so pitifully failed at.
[/q]

We had 5 swordsmen and 2 catapults, all built after the stack left; and catapults can't travel in mountains well anyway, as you well know, so they would have hindered us more than they would have helped. A granary - how is that wrong to build our SECOND granary ever? You see the scores ... you see how we were falling behind due to our ultimate committment to this war. We needed to build SOME infrastructure or lose regardless of the DR war's outcome.

We never showed you a city for the purpose of showing you it being empty. And we certainly never said you needed to empty your lands - Paddy did that on his own accord; we have always felt some homeland defense is required.

[q=plato]

Originally posted by snoopy369
Then tell them how you conspired to betray our tech alliance (which was recertified after the era end, symbolized by your agreement with McMeadows to work on monotheism 12 July), betray our military alliance, and betray our luxury trade agreement - and betray us entirely, by declaring war on your former allies. With no meaningful evidence of anything to your side, other than a quote that you misunderstood.

I am afraid that is just laughable. The treaties were handled according to wording your suggested. It is amazing that you have the gual to accuse us of betrayal when the evidence is clear that your sword was aimed at the heart of this alliance. You were given the required notice of ending the treaty under a clause your people had insisted on! We left your lands prior to declaring war.
[/q]

We had recertified the tech agreement, per my statement above. The only way you could break the treaty without a ten turn notice was to break it upon era's end, which did not happen; you broke it after we had agreed on a medieval era tech trade, which certainly feels like recertification to me. If it sounds like a duck ...

How would we have taken FIVE SWORDSMEN AND TWO CATAPULTS and destroyed you, sir? Please explain that? We have never understood why you assumed that our rebuilding military - slowly - was a threat to you. Paddy asked McM to commit more troops initially - which he said he couldn't - and then paddy reversed himself and asked for a road - which wasn't feasible at that moment either due to workers being mostly on the opposite side of the map.

[q=plato]
Betrayal is a word that was foriegn to the Mongol language. It has now been entered in our dictionary as "Betrayal-See Euphorica"

Originally posted by snoopy369
Tell them all of that - and then leave your bull**** about us starting this betrayal out of the ring. That, or post something meaningful, some actual evidence of betrayal - which you can't, because we were honest, trustworthy allies until you betrayed us.

Excuse me? And you believe you can speak to me in that language, why?

We certainly had hopes that you would have been. The evidence presented here clearly shows that the above statement has absolutely zero merit.
[/q]

Plato - you still have yet to post any evidence. Seeing five swordsmen and two catapults in a city is not a betrayal ... it is us building up a viable army so we could once again, ten or fifteen turns down the line, contribute to our once-alliance. Your paranoia does not qualify as a betrayal sir ... simply as paranoia.


[q=plato]
It matters not to The Horde. We have the power to deal with your nation. It is for the sake of the honest diplomacy you have conducted with us in the past that I issue this warning. If your desire is to be destroyed and thus leave this game, then war on...if you wish to build a civilization that can be an honest part of this world, then I suggest you reconsider your neutrality. [/QUOTE]

The bolded part is mine.

This is the root of my point ... the Horde sees only that they have the power to do what they want. They care nought for alliances or treaties - only that they have the power to do something, so they do it.

We erred greatly - and admit so freely - in thinking that DR was the major threat in this game. I don't doubt that they would have had a good chance at winning had it not been for our attack on them - but we failed, horribly, to see the threat that the Horde is and will be. DR fought honorably, at least, as did we. The acts of the Horde are dishonorable, and prove their low nature. That is unfortunate ...

[q=paddy]
Yes Plato, and tell them how our allies did not like answering questions on what units they had. Then tell them how they had heaps of opportunities to come good with said information. Oh and while your there tell them how much we care these days.[/q]

You never asked directly how many units we had. Not once. Had you asked, we would have happily given that information out.

And we don't care about your opinion on these matters. We care about public opinion - and whether you are adequately punished for your vile betrayal of our alliance.

[snoopy369]

What that long post comes down to is ...

The BoH had only their paranoia as evidence - paranoia that five swordsmen and two catapults in our easternmost major city, the dropoff point for DR units and the furthest city from BoH territory of size - meant we were going to betray them, so they betrayed us first. Sad, isn't it, that no betrayal was coming from our end, but simply what we figured to be a mop-up effort against the DR forces when we had rebuilt our army from the unfortunate incident a few turns back.

[Ljube]

Building one granary was an outrage. Building two was a betrayal!

The secret army was just the topping on the cake of deceit you cooked. It's time to eat that cake.

[Paddy]

Originally posted by 1889
Alliance members are now invited to join the Lost Boys forum.

this is interesting

you do not allow others to join your team

yet you allow a forum set up for your team to be used by your new alliance

a twist

I say you should thus have the courage to now take on other team members...

[Aqualung71]

Originally posted by Ljube
Building one granary was an outrage. Building two was a betrayal!

Ljube in all fairness, I sincerely hope for the sake of your public standing, that the above statement was meant as a joke

[Paddy]

Originally posted by snoopy369
What that long post comes down to is ...

The BoH had only their paranoia as evidence - paranoia that five swordsmen and two catapults in our easternmost major city, the dropoff point for DR units and the furthest city from BoH territory of size - meant we were going to betray them, so they betrayed us first. Sad, isn't it, that no betrayal was coming from our end, but simply what we figured to be a mop-up effort against the DR forces when we had rebuilt our army from the unfortunate incident a few turns back.

ahh thank you for this information Snoopy.

it certainly is sad that you are more than willing to share such information now, yet when asked openly by your then allie, you could not give such information

well it certainly seems that there is not much chance of turning the situation around now

[Micha]

I never got that one anyway. What´s the matter with those granaries? In all strategy threads they´re listed as top priority, yet it is an outrage/betrayal to build them???