Term 8 President Election

[Panzer32]

Give Aro a chance

(not saying that Aro=peace, however )

[E_T]

And the Mud starts to fly.....SPLAT!!

E_T

[Aro]

Originally posted by GodKing
come on.....
more mud.

Lots more mud.

Please

Be careful about your wishes, GodKing...

Originally posted by E_T
And the Mud starts to fly.....SPLAT!!

E_T

[GhengisFarbâ„¢]

Originally posted by Aggie
Up to now I have ignored the half truths and distortions of Arnlelos.
Aggie

Don't vote for evil! Arnelos is using his Sith mind tricks upon you!

[Arnelos]

Originally posted by Aggie
Up to now I have ignored the half truths and distortions of Arnlelos.

More accurately, they are reflections of my perceptions. Perception, I will readily admit, is often highly biased. That said, because something has to be the cause of a given perception, there is typically a kernel of truth even in the most biased of perceptions.

Nowhere in the entire nomination thread did you come out and fully commit yourself to the race. You made reference to not being able to do parts of the job or saying you'd only enter as a course of last resort.

Even if I were to kindly excuse the entire mess about not having to worry for popular sentiment as pure role-play, the above (what's left) still left sufficient reason to doubt that you were either fully invested in the race or were taking the responsibilities as seriously as you did the first time you ran for office.

I was hoping that whatever rl event that upset him would pass and he would apologize, but this hasn't occured. I have decided honor demands I respond.

I'll admit that I was in an extremely foul mood having nothing to do with Apolyton.

You have my sincere apology for allowing that to be expent on attacking you.

If you look at his post you would think I am a person who never plays by the rules and does only what he wants. We all know this is untrue. Everything I have done in this game has been to help the nation. Not ONCE did I ever go against the will of the people.

While it would be unfair to characterize you as being someone without any regard for the rules and I apologize for that characterization (it's not quite what I meant, but that's beside the point), surely you must see that willfully violating the rules you chose to uphold could easily be described as "against the will of the people" or at least many of them.

Just because a communal decision was made to let you off easy does not mean that all fully supported your willfull violation of their previously stated will without consulting them.

I think we all understand that you mean well and meant well. That's why I didn't press charges, pissed off though I was. At the same time, however, you can't very well pretend that you did nothing wrong. If you do, the voters have every reason to expect you will do it again - fail to consult with them on a major issue where you are required to consult with them.

If you're willing to pledge to consult the citizens next time as you are required and follow through with that pledge, that would remove my primary reason for running against you.

Always I have been guided by their desires. For example earlier this week, when we were bogged down in the GL issue, I looked at the constitution closely and decided it did allow for "senate chats". So I pushed this idea and soon others took up the call and it was done. I did this because we all know the greatest enemy of this game isn't other civs, it is people losing interest. He would call this not playing by the rules, I call it looking for a solution to a problem. Yet for 2 days after the chat he did NOTHING, and hid behind a"waiting for a judicial review" excuse. There was no legal challenge to the chat, yet the will of the people was thwarted. In theory this is an impeachable offense. In the very least he did not perform the duties of a leader and try to get a solution.

I maintain that the agreement reached in the senate chat was illegal. I fully agree with the arguments of roadcage, among others, that the existence of such a senate chat whose voting did not allow for all members of the community to vote is a violation of not only the NewCon, but of a far older rule in this demogame - that all citizens have the right to vote.

I know that such an opinion is unpopular, but I happen to believe that the rule of law in cases like this is essential to curtailing the disenfranchisement of part of a democracy. If the law is unpopular and people want to change it, I strongly suggest to them that they use various methods of doing so legally.

IN FACT, I PERSONALLY POSTED MULTIPLE THREADS OFFERING DIFFERENT LEGAL METHODS OF CHANGING THE RULES TO WHAT PEOPLE WANTED.

Yet I am accused of showing no leadership.

I was only willing to knowingly violate what I felt to be the law if and only if the Court sanctioned it. That is what I am now doing. Waiting for that Court sanction is not being irresponsible and it is not impeachable. Rather, I was following the law as I knew it to exist: no senate bill authorizing the use of Seti had yet passed.

You admitted yourself that the so-called "senate chat" stood on extremely shaky legal ground and I think you know very well that it is only by completely overlooking the obvious that the Court has bowed to majority opinion in this case.

I honestly did not believe that the President was the proper person to make such a sweeping and so apparently flawed interpretation of the law... the job of interpreting law is explicitly given to the Court.

All who know me know that I do try to get solutions, some through the forums, some through chats and other times through pm's. You all know that I listen and try to find a way that as many people as possible will be satisfied. Now I ask you who has done the greater wrong, one who does something that is common sense(as I did with the MPP against rome) or one who actively goes against the will of the people. Let me assure you that I will always obey the people, as I have always done.

"Done the greater wrong"? If holding my ground and refusing to bow to pressure to use extra-legal means to disenfranchise many of our citizens is "the greater wrong", then I'm guilty as charged.

I may believe in democracy and popular will, but I also believe in rights and my responsiblity as an officer of the law to uphold that law and respect those rights, even if I or the majority of people don't like it. There are legal means to change our rules. It's a pity that so few people have the patience to use them.

There is a difference between a civil democracy and a massocracy.

I think it is unfortunate that a president will go to such lengths of character assasination to keep his job and I hope you the people will send him a clear message that this is unacceptable.

For the record, as I posted multiple times, I did not enter this race because I desire the job. Contrary to your accusation, I did not criticize you because I wanted to keep my job... that's extremely far from the truth.

The truth is precisely what I stated... it was my perception that no-one had SERIOUSLY entered the race when I finally felt forced to step in (having previously and honestly stated that I wouldn't enter the race unless as a means of last resort). It honestly annoyed me that no-one had yet officially entered the race when I finally did so and it didn't ease my annoyance that you and Aro both then entered "tentatively" or in jest.

I honestly believed that the job, which you well know takes an enormous amount of time from the office holder's schedule for very little reward, was being approached with insufficient seriousness by you and Aro.

Regarding Aro, my reaction was not terribly dissimilar to OPD and UnOrthOdOx's reaction to my decision to run for Vice President 3 terms back. They got the impression very early that I wasn't taking the time commitment that would be necessary with sufficient seriousness. I happen to believe they were wrong, but I'll admit that I took it MORE seriously after UnOrthOdOx raked me over the coals. I may be equally wrong about Aro, but that's beside the point.

As for you, my "character assassination" has certainly gotten you to at least address some very real issues of which you still seem to be denying. Though rude to so bluntly bring it up, I admit, I was merely voicing an issue that more than I want you to respond to before we would consider supporting you as President again. Most are far too polite to be so blunt. Normally, I would be as well.

You have my apologies for my hastiness and rudeness.

Since I've already paid the price to bring the issue out in the open, however, I think it productive on some level that at least we're now discussing it where otherwise it would have been left burried. For both of us, I will admit, it's a real issue that has real consequences. Your perceptions of me, though extremely distorted, hide as much in terms of kernels of truth as mine do about you.

EDIT: spelling, etc.

[notyoueither]

Originally posted by Arnelos
Aggie is serious about being President alright, he's just not serious about playing by the rules or fulfilling his duties.

Plonk. Bye.

[nz_upy]

This is some good stuff here.
Can this mudslinging go in the newzupdate??
This alone would bring more people into the game.

Bush vs Gore eat your heart out.

[Hot_Enamel]

I dont trust anyone who's name starts with the letter "A".

However...
I have followed this game since 4000BC, and I have seen it getting bogged down by rules, constraints, polls and votes.

Only Aggie has shown he has the ballz to do what is necessary to keep this game playing.


BUT....I decided to vote Aro....The other two have already had a go.

[GhengisFarbâ„¢]

I sense a run-off!

[OPD]

I love elections like this.

I voted for Arnelos as Aggie and Aro aren't real people they were assasinated and replaced with robots back in term 4. Apoc wanted to replace them with super intelligent monkeys but we needed all those to replace the judges.
The only person who noticed was MWIA. So we replaced him with a below average intelligence monkey and he was still elected pres in term 5.

[Shiber]

This seems to me like a fight between the lawyers and the people who just wanna play the game.

[Aro]

Originally posted by OPD
I love elections like this.

I voted for Arnelos as Aggie and Aro aren't real people they were assasinated and replaced with robots back in term 4. Apoc wanted to replace them with super intelligent monkeys but we needed all those to replace the judges.
The only person who noticed was MWIA. So we replaced him with a below average intelligence monkey and he was still elected pres in term 5.

Nice to see you too, OPD.

[GhengisFarbâ„¢]

Originally posted by OPD
I love elections like this.

I voted for Arnelos as ...

You voted for Arnelos as you have been tainted by the Dark Side.

Sith sympathizer!

Why don't you go ahead and change your avatar to Jar Jar Binks.

[Aggie]

Arnelos apology accepted. I also apologize for critizism about the seti matter. We are all to blame for such a delay, and we must make sure it doesn't happen again. We simply have to agree to disagree on the senate chat, I saw it as the only way to move the game forward, though I admit it wasn't perfect. To be honest I did not expect such an uproar when we approved the MPP. I would not do such a thing again since it caused such a reaction and would hurt the cause of moving the game forward that I champion. But for the record I do say that I will try all legal means necessary to keep the game moving, but wll make a point of staying inside the law.
Aggie

[GodKing]

I still haven't voted here......

Still cannot make up my mind...... so many good possibilities....

Who has the biggest bribe.....

And E_T, you gotta watch that aim of yours, you almost hit me with that splat of mud.

GK