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Citizens against Court Case #9

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  • Citizens against Court Case #9

    Check out this embarrassing Court Case right here.



    I'll begin by saying that upon reading this thread, I am continously annoyed by this case as it keeps going. To begin with, I don't believe it should have even been brought to the Court, is a waste of time even for the plaintiffs, though especially the Judges who have to watch the Plaintiffs make a mockery of the Court and it's system.

    That the only reason this case is in existence is because of a minor fault in the Constitution that a Cabinet Veto must take place within 72 hours of the law they vetoed. In reality, the Veto took place so shortly after the time limit that it really should not even have been challenged.
    There are those who would seek the Constitution followed to the letter, even the faulty portions of it like this. They are also the same people who do not wish to compromise their position by agreeing that REAL LIFE takes PRECEDENCE over ANYTHING that happens in this game.

    Might I point out that if the NewCon REALLY took precedence over everything in the minds of those here, even really life matters, than many of us in real life could be without jobs, isolated from our families, and simply forum-junkies doing nothing but letting our eyes rot from the electrons in our monitors.

    Who cares if the Veto was missed by a couple hours, or even longer? Does it really matter?

    Might I also point out that this Court Case #9 has been the most unorthodox (not not the person, the WORD) and embarrasing case in the history of 'poly.

    The Judges and Defendants have had to wait patiently while Plaintiffs without much of a case argue amongst themselves, hurl insults, and make a mockery of the Court.

    I mean seriously folks, remember Reddawg vs. Mr Orange? That was a serious case, one that was carried out in an orderly manner, with both sides intelligently speaking their case, and not resorting to personal attacks, spam posts, or otherwise off-topic statements. Unlike #9. There is no respect for the Court in this latest case, not much that I've seen anyways.

    Enough of my rant. I will stand outside the Great Courthouse and start a picket line. I will proudly hang a sign above my head that proudly states in fine, bold letters:

    "LEAVE THE CABINET ALONE!"

    Who is with me?

    Meshelic
    Former Supreme Military Commander of the Democratic Apolyton States, Term 8
    Former Chairman of Apolyton Labor Party

  • #2
    Preach it brother

    I must definitely agree with you. There is absolutely no order what so ever to the proceedings. And everyone seems to be randomly posting and not following the rules of the court.

    I do not envy the justices at the moment, the situation they are put in is absolutely unfair and a huge waste of their time. I do hope this case is just thrown out. No matter what the outcome is, it will not accomplish anything.

    Not to mention the fact that it is a sticky and posted at the very top of our boards, so visitors from all over the place will immediately get a horrible impression of Apolytonia.
    First Civ3DG: 3rd and 4th Term Minister of Public Works. | Second Civ3DG: First Term Vice President | ISDG: Ambassador in the Foreign Affairs Ministry | Save Apolyton! Kill the Off-Topic Forum!

    (04/29/2004) [Trip] we will see who is best in the next round ; [Trip] that is why I left this team ; [Trip] I don't need the rest of you to win |
    The solution to 1984 is 1776! | Here's to hoping that GoW's military isn't being run by MasterZen: Hehe! | DaveRocks! or something. ;)

    Comment


    • #3
      I agree. I find the case in general quite ridiculous; and I'm shocked to see the supreme authority of RL questioned. (But at least skywalker agrees on the second point.)

      Comment


      • #4
        As defendent inthis case, I realy shouldn't post in this thread

        As a citizen, I bow to you Mel, I agree.
        Remember.... pillage first then burn.

        Comment


        • #5
          My problem with the proceedings is a little different. The underlying issue of the bill that was vetoed has been properly analysed and there appears to be concensus developing about the underlying cause from a game play perspective.

          So the original bill is unnecessary
          but
          It was passed
          but
          it was vetoed
          but
          it was vetoed late
          but
          who is there left to care?
          but
          just in case

          When there is a gross surplus of workers as was and still is the case, it is advantageous to absorb locals first. But when we get down to a task defined skeleton crew, it is advantageous to absorb locals last so that the crew can be smaller.

          So if the whole case went away, our newly enlightened DM's would probably get it right.

          If the veto is upheld, our newly enlightened DM's would probably get it right.

          If the veto is overturned, our newly enlightened DM's would be obligated to post a bill that voided the original bill and hope that it is effective before we reach that skeleton crew state.

          So will the court please act quickly?
          How about today.
          I used to be a builder. That was before I played Civ III

          Comment


          • #6
            I just want to say that only MJW thinks the NewCon supersedes RL. I have REPEATEDLY said that I think that RL supersedes the NewCon. It's just that I think RL is not the issue here.

            Comment


            • #7
              I stand with you Meshelic. And I most particularly agree with roadcage. The whole thing has been a series of fiascos that shouldn't have kept going but did. And now the court has no choice but to rule on a mish-mash of absurdities. It's not the court's fault, but they should meet, rule, and move on, and keep their integrity intact.

              Let the cabinet get on with the game! Vote now! Rule now! Don't let past events control our actions!
              Last edited by Thud; January 12, 2003, 18:05.
              "The Enrichment Center is required to inform you that you will be baked, and then there will be cake"
              Former President, C3SPDGI

              Comment


              • #8
                The Arguments for the Defense has been outstanding. Other than that, I will reserve any further comments on the issue, as I am technically a defendant, sort of.

                E_T
                Come and see me at WePlayCiv
                Worship the Comic here!
                Term IV DFM for Trade, Term V CP & Term VI DM, Term VII SMC of Apolytonia - SPDGI, Minister of the Interior of the PTW InterSite Demo Game

                Comment


                • #9
                  Although I have no part in any of the proceedings, as a citizen I ask that the plaintiffs stand down, that the defense be allowed to continue their work this term unabated by these accusations, and that the Judges not have to deal with this case anymore.

                  Thank you
                  Meshelic
                  Former Supreme Military Commander of the Democratic Apolyton States, Term 8
                  Former Chairman of Apolyton Labor Party

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by E_T
                    The Arguments for the Defense has been outstanding. Other than that, I will reserve any further comments on the issue, as I am technically a defendant, sort of.

                    E_T
                    ET - Definitely. Adamada is a fabulous "lawyer" in this game. Way to go Adamada, you are doing a great job.

                    Originally posted by Meshelic
                    Although I have no part in any of the proceedings, as a citizen I ask that the plaintiffs stand down, that the defense be allowed to continue their work this term unabated by these accusations, and that the Judges not have to deal with this case anymore.

                    Thank you
                    Meshelic
                    Again, I agree with Meshelic and I am sure many others do. The defense has already recognized the error of their ways and the veto is not recognized anyway.
                    First Civ3DG: 3rd and 4th Term Minister of Public Works. | Second Civ3DG: First Term Vice President | ISDG: Ambassador in the Foreign Affairs Ministry | Save Apolyton! Kill the Off-Topic Forum!

                    (04/29/2004) [Trip] we will see who is best in the next round ; [Trip] that is why I left this team ; [Trip] I don't need the rest of you to win |
                    The solution to 1984 is 1776! | Here's to hoping that GoW's military isn't being run by MasterZen: Hehe! | DaveRocks! or something. ;)

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Again, I agree with Meshelic and I am sure many others do. The defense has already recognized the error of their ways and the veto is not recognized anyway.
                      How so? And why is the veto not recognized?

                      Do you mean to say that the cabinet has learned from their mistake and this will not happen again? Yes. Should the veto be recognized: it depends on the court, but I beleive Yes.

                      I believe Meshelic simply wants skywalker et al to withdraw their case and let the veto stand. This way, the court does not have to delay further in their deliberation.
                      "The Enrichment Center is required to inform you that you will be baked, and then there will be cake"
                      Former President, C3SPDGI

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        A) If the VETO stands, it affects nothing
                        B) If the VETO does not stand, it still affects nothing
                        C) If the Plaintiffs win the case, it affects nothing
                        D) If the Defendants win the case, it affects nothing

                        Why hold a court hearing when the end result is, yup, you guessed it, "nothing" ?

                        What is to be gained by filing charges?

                        What is to be gained by withdrawing the Veto?

                        What is to be gained at all in any circumstance?

                        I don't wish to see our Judicial System turn into a Kangaroo Court.
                        Former Supreme Military Commander of the Democratic Apolyton States, Term 8
                        Former Chairman of Apolyton Labor Party

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Precedent.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Thud, perhaps I worded it wrong, but this post by MSS (a cabinet member, so it holds some authority I think) explains the opinion I am trying to say:


                            Originally posted by ManicStarSeed
                            Aggie, I agree with you regarding precedent. I just want to see the problem solved by the Senate, not the Court. You had the right idea don't push it, let the issue be resolved in time and let people get a plan together.

                            Skywalker, Spiffor as DM as the POWER to sponsor a senate bill which directly affects his duties as DM and that bill CAN repeal another law. As for the illegality of the veto, it is not illeagal, just ineffective as if it (the veto) never happened.

                            There is NO reason for a court case as NO law was violated, yet. If the DM or Prez assimilated foreign workers, then the law would be violated and there is a case. THERE IS NO CASE HERE. Just an argument of wheather the law will (note... will) stand up in court if it is violated. I can pretty much assure you that it will.

                            You are RIGHT, the veto is INVALID, TOO LATE and MEANINGLESS. The law stands as the VETO NEVER HAPPENED. Are you asking the Court for a ruling on it, go for it. There is NO real counter argument that can be made.

                            Again if the pres or DM want to push the issue, they will assimilate some foreign workers this next turn chat and BREAK THE LAW. Then there will be a case. Untill then we have an ambigous situation. There have been no laws or rules broken, just a missed deadline and some ensuing confusion.

                            The court can rule on the veto, but it seems simple...IT NEVER HAPPENED, deadline missed, the law stands. My suggestion is let the senate fix the standing law.

                            Nuff said


                            Mss

                            PS. It seams that I am shouting, but I am just empahsizing some points.

                            Have fun...
                            Regardless of the legality. I think the justices should drop the case as it is a waste of everyone's time.
                            First Civ3DG: 3rd and 4th Term Minister of Public Works. | Second Civ3DG: First Term Vice President | ISDG: Ambassador in the Foreign Affairs Ministry | Save Apolyton! Kill the Off-Topic Forum!

                            (04/29/2004) [Trip] we will see who is best in the next round ; [Trip] that is why I left this team ; [Trip] I don't need the rest of you to win |
                            The solution to 1984 is 1776! | Here's to hoping that GoW's military isn't being run by MasterZen: Hehe! | DaveRocks! or something. ;)

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              With regards to the veto, it does matter; the DM needs to know whether he can integrate slaves without being dragged through court and possibly censured/impeached for violating senate law.

                              Comment

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