court case: killing the veto

[MJW]

I want to kill the veto for the following reason:

I will say that the whole purpose of the bill was to prevent us rushing into integrating foreign workers without a plan. So the bill did its job by forcing this issue. I must however point out that the 72hr limit was exceeded. If it had been a 3-2 vote with arnelos as the deciding vote I would have not worried since he had good reason for the delay. However, 3 other cabinet members were here and didn't act in the required 72hrs. So this veto is invalid. I will not challenge this in court because in my eyes the bill has done its job. But I do worry about the precedent that has been set.
Aggie

[Togas]

MJW is Aggie?

Those of us in The Court need you to clarify. Why are you posting a thread called "court case" when you say in that thread,

I will not challenge this in court because in my eyes the bill has done its job. But I do worry about the precedent that has been set.

--Togas

[Thud]

I beleive he was using Aggie's quotation from another thread as his justification. Frankly, I'm confused as to why he included that particular sentence. Probably misread it.

[Aggie]

I am not MJW, just to avoid confusion.
Aggie

[Kuciwalker]

No, MJW is you BWAHAHAHAHA

[ManicStarSeed]

My stomach is turning and I am gonna puke.

This is ALL because of 5 stinking hours. My head gets so turned around with the various time zones, it is not right that this is really happening. If this really goes down where is the justice? Five stinking hours late in a game of fun. It is sad.

Let me ask the COURT one question. The Senate can REPEAL the law can it not?

If, so and it pleases the court I request that the court delays any action untill the senate has a chance to repeal it or replace it with a more acceptable bill.

SENATORS: Please reconsider the bill and PASS anotherone more approprate to the needs of the nation. Do it soon. Save the court and our nation of this. Many of you see the errors of the bill and KNOW it can be better. Make it so.

Spiffor: It is within your jurisdiction to sponsor a bill regarding this. If you want, you can repeal it or change it.

Havinfg said my peace, I leave it to the Senate and the DM. I have FAM stuff to attend to.

Mss

[Kuciwalker]

ManicStarSeed - whether or not the bill is good or bad is of no consequence in this case, as it is a matter of opinion. The issue at hand is whether the executive veto of the bill was LEGAL, not whether it was actually the right thing in the game.

Btw, Spiffor does NOT have the right to unilaterally repeal or change the bill.

[Aggie]

MSS, let me explain my reason for the bill in the first place. There had been some mention of putting foreign citizens into howitzerville by the DM in response to a poll he believed indicated that most people wanted to release "guest workers" now. What the results of the poll showed was that people wanted to release them after work is done, and I agree with this part. So I proposed the bill to prevent this and believed that the dm would make up a formal plan which he has done. One item I would like to see in a repeal bill is a requirement that we DON't concentrate workers of an existing nation in a city since that could lead to culture flips. Like I said I won't challenge the veto of this bill, but I also worry about the precedent that we are setting by ignoring the 72hr rule. For example, if next time, a bill is passed and it gets vetoed at 5 days they can always look back and say"well it worked last time so we can get away with waiting this long to veto". I would like to see a new bill, but lets not rush a repeal bill just to prevent the veto from being overturned.
Aggie

[Arnelos]

Justices,

If this is indeed going to a Court case, I suppose you need someone to offer the case for the Cabinet. With jdjdjd's nomination to the Court, I suppose that we'll need to find another. My guess is that Spiffor would do well, but I'm not sure if he's up to it.

Let me know if you indeed need that and we can work something out.

[ManicStarSeed]

Aggie, I agree with you regarding precedent. I just want to see the problem solved by the Senate, not the Court. You had the right idea don't push it, let the issue be resolved in time and let people get a plan together.

Skywalker, Spiffor as DM as the POWER to sponsor a senate bill which directly affects his duties as DM and that bill CAN repeal another law. As for the illegality of the veto, it is not illeagal, just ineffective as if it (the veto) never happened.

There is NO reason for a court case as NO law was violated, yet. If the DM or Prez assimilated foreign workers, then the law would be violated and there is a case. THERE IS NO CASE HERE. Just an argument of wheather the law will (note... will) stand up in court if it is violated. I can pretty much assure you that it will.

You are RIGHT, the veto is INVALID, TOO LATE and MEANINGLESS. The law stands as the VETO NEVER HAPPENED. Are you asking the Court for a ruling on it, go for it. There is NO real counter argument that can be made.

Again if the pres or DM want to push the issue, they will assimilate some foreign workers this next turn chat and BREAK THE LAW. Then there will be a case. Untill then we have an ambigous situation. There have been no laws or rules broken, just a missed deadline and some ensuing confusion.

The court can rule on the veto, but it seems simple...IT NEVER HAPPENED, deadline missed, the law stands. My suggestion is let the senate fix the standing law.

Nuff said

Mss

PS. It seams that I am shouting, but I am just empahsizing some points.

Have fun...

[Aggie]

Excellent point MSS.
Aggie

[Kuciwalker]

I said Spiffor cannot UNILATERALLY repeal or change it. Of course he can support another bill that does so, but it's the SENATE that votes on the bill, and it's just like any other bill.

The veto WAS illegal because it happened after the time limit for a veto had expired.

PS: I use caps for the same thing too It's faster than typing .

[adaMada]

Originally posted by Arnelos
Justices,

If this is indeed going to a Court case, I suppose you need someone to offer the case for the Cabinet. With jdjdjd's nomination to the Court, I suppose that we'll need to find another. My guess is that Spiffor would do well, but I'm not sure if he's up to it.

Let me know if you indeed need that and we can work something out.

I am willing to present the case for the Cabinet should they desire external representation, though I doubt they need or desire any help in that area .

-- adaMada

[ManicStarSeed]

Originally posted by skywalker
I said Spiffor cannot UNILATERALLY repeal or change it. Of course he can support another bill that does so, but it's the SENATE that votes on the bill, and it's just like any other bill.

I just do not know where you got the unilateral idea from. I said that he could sponsor a bill.... I think you took the last part out of that context.

Originally posted by skywalker
The veto WAS illegal because it happened after the time limit for a veto had expired.

No it was not..
the cabinet BROKE NO LAWS, nothing illegal was done, we did not disobey a court order, we did not overstep costitutional powers, no workers were assimilated- - NOTHING illegal happened. Our VETO just becam empty words upon the sand. The court will not uphold the VETO, that is it. We missed a deadline.

When you say illegal, what are you getting at, are you looking for impeachment? censure? That is where illegal goes. Are you saying that by missing the deadline We did something illegal? Are you crying for justice? For what wrong?

Nothing illegal has happened, yet.

Mss

[Kuciwalker]

The veto was illegal, because it was not made within the time constraints. I'm asking for it to be declared null and void.