Senate Bill: Forbidding the assimilation of foreign workers

[GhengisFarb™]

The cities make National citizens for free. Who cares how many slaves it takes if they are all free?

[Spiffor]

Originally posted by GhengisFarb
The cities make National citizens for free. Who cares how many slaves it takes if they are all free?

Yes, but they make national citizens slowly. Having new citizens immediately would be a real boost to our economy, and would completely finish our rise to hegemony. If not, it would be pointless to integrate workers at all (we could disband national workers instead)

[Kuciwalker]

Spiffor, I see what you're saying now, and you've convinced me. I think, however, we should limit integration of slaves to cities that haven't been taken from the AI, so that we take an unnecessary risk of culture flipping.

[Spiffor]

Skywalker :
You are absolutely right : we should integrate slaves in cities which are risk-free from culture flipping. I'd advise not to integrate slaves in any border city, except those which are very strong culturally. I'll also never integrate a slave in a city near his origin country (for example, I'll never integrate Greek slaves in Macross City)

[Panag]

Originally posted by notyoueither
Inefficient? How is a worker who costs nothing inefficient?

Please explain.

hi ,

he works slower , so more movements are needed ; that is a waste

and if we would have a little bit of monet management we could build more banks that would bring us more money , and this can be done relatively easy by having the slaves join our cities , we can always draft them or make workers out of them when needed , .....

a bigger city shall not only build faster but shall also give us more tax and more science , so its a win-win situation , we can easily have two or even three payed workers for each slave that we can let join the cities , and they shall work faster so we dont need so many of them , ......

so we should let them join !

have a nice day

[Shiber]

First of all, allow me to point out that a worker, slave or domestic, is more efficient in the fields than inside a city, as long as there's work to be done. You must agree that a worker would do more good to improve the terrain, which pays up in the longer run, rather than enter cities.
Having said that, I'm sure that all who agree with the above statement must also agree that we should not integrate any domestic workers or slaves into our cities before we're done with all of our public works. It's best to finish the PWs as fast as possible with as many workers as possible than to release some of them into the cities and slow down the work, right?
Now, pay attention to this: we've still got some work to do until the current Apolytonian lands are fully improved up to the greatest extent possible within the game. Afterwards, we've got the German lands to improve, and if you've taken a look at Germany you'd surely realize that there's A LOT of work to do - the German field infrastructure is heavily lacking!!
Once we're done with that, which might be in a month or even two from now, we'd have no further need for workers other than to clear pollution, improve any newly-conquered lands and do occasional jobs for the SMC. For that, we can make do with our slaves!
We won't need all those fast domestic workers to clear up pollution and to improve new lands (such as England, which we'll probably begin to annex in two months).
We've got about 70 slaves at the moment. Let's assume that by the time all the works are done, we'll have 90 slaves (we get one slave per every German city that we conquer, and we'll eventually capture their workers too). 90 slaves equal to 45 domestic workers in their speed of work, which will make do for our little needs past that point!
When the day that I speak of comes, we'll be able to integrate all of our domestic workers and even some of our slaves into the cities without worrying about the speed of work, because the slaves that we'll have left will be perfectly sufficient for clearing pollution and improving occasional new terrain. We'll then have a nice and completely free work force.

[Kuciwalker]

Panag - the slave is free, so it will ALWAYS be more cost-efficient than the worker. You fail to see that.

What Spiffor is saying, though, is that OVERALL PRODUCTIVITY will be enhanced if we integrate slaves first. He is correct on that point.

One thing to note, Spiffer, though, is that foreigners of ANY civ will increase the chance of culture flip, not just of the civ nearby.

[Panag]

Originally posted by skywalker
Panag - the slave is free, so it will ALWAYS be more cost-efficient than the worker. You fail to see that.

What Spiffor is saying, though, is that OVERALL PRODUCTIVITY will be enhanced if we integrate slaves first. He is correct on that point.

One thing to note, Spiffer, though, is that foreigners of ANY civ will increase the chance of culture flip, not just of the civ nearby.

hi ,

free but slow , and costing us more money because we have extra work moving them and extra loses because they work so slow , while in a city the shall have a tile , a tile that brings us money and science and shields , .....

its more intresting to work with payed labor and let the others join us or sell them , ....

have a nice day

[Kuciwalker]

Panag, a stack of two slaves moves as quickly and works as quickly as a single native, but costs nothing. Therefore, AS WORKERS, slaves are more cost-effective. THAT'S NOT AN ISSUE ANYMORE.

[Panag]

Originally posted by skywalker
Panag, a stack of two slaves moves as quickly and works as quickly as a single native, but costs nothing. Therefore, AS WORKERS, slaves are more cost-effective. THAT'S NOT AN ISSUE ANYMORE.

hi ,

and if one of those slaves would work a tile in a city he would produce some shields , and would give us at least two-three gold a turn , not to mention about the science we would get from it , ......

slaves are bad for us , and as you have said yourself , two work like of of us , thats each time two moves instead of on , ......

so instead of having only 100 moves we need 200 moves , one 100 extra just because we keep slaves , .....

slaves cause nothing but trouble and make us loose a lot of money , .......

have a nice day

[Shiber]

Originally posted by Spiffor
Some people (Shiber specifically, but I assume other as well) believe I want to integrate slaves in the cities for RP reasons.

I've read some of your posts regarding the matter, which related to the RP side of slave emancipation, but I never really believed this was true. I'd never underestimate you so much that I'd think that you want to do something that many argue is detrimental to our economy just for RP reasons, and I apologize if anything I've said implies that I do.

[Spiffor]

Originally posted by Shiber


I've read some of your posts regarding the matter, which related to the RP side of slave emancipation, but I never really believed this was true. I'd never underestimate you so much that I'd think that you want to do something that many argue is detrimental to our economy just for RP reasons, and I apologize if anything I've said implies that I do.

No problem Shiber I talked about you because you mentioned this at the beginning of the slavery argument, but I don't consider you were underestimating me. At the time, the debate was so heavily influenced by RP that one could consider RP was the only reason in favor of abolitionism. IMHO, it was a misunderstanding, which I tried to correct in this here thread.

But I don't completely reject the idea of including RP in the game in the future : it depends on us as a team : as there are less and less challenges to answer, maybe the senate will want to integrate "ethics" and such in the actual game. I will comply to whatever the senate decides (I'll never implement RP in the game on my own)

[Shiber]

That's good to hear.
Any comments on my previous post (the one that I posted before the one that you quoted).

[Kuciwalker]

Panag, that's what Shiber's been saying all along, and what I AGREED WITH.

[Panag]

Originally posted by skywalker
Panag, that's what Shiber's been saying all along, and what I AGREED WITH.

hi ,

he has been saying a great deal of things , would you please specify as to what you mean

have a nice day