War Academy: Attack the tech leaders

[Shiber]

You've got a good point there. We might lose some of our imported luxuries due to alliances and trade embargoes. Even though, I still think we can make it through. We may have to build colosseums in our large cities if the war turns out to be longer than we expected, but we'll make it through.
I believe that the chances of us losing all three of our imported luxuries are slim, and even if we do we'd still be able to buy ivory from either Rome or Greece, provided that we're not in war or trade embargo with both.

[UnOrthOdOx]

I have no doubt we can take care of Bismark. Let's say we go to war with them, after 3 turns, he allies with England. We end the war with Germany at 5 turns, but have only been at war with England for 2, they won't talk to us, they then bring in the Aztecs, we end war with England at 5 turns, but Aztecs wont talk...they ally with Greece....see how it can go? IIRC, Weariness doesn't care WHO you are fighting, just htat you ARE fighting. We may individually war with these for 5-7 turns each, and easily end up with 20 turns of war...

Getting allies DOES commit us to 20 turns. It also limits who Bismark can get on his side, secures the trades with those we are allied with, and improves (albeit temporarily) our relations with those nations.

[History Guy]

(Standing atop capitol building, waving Apolytonian flag)

Onward! Onward to victory! For your wives, for your sisters, for your sweethearts, for old Apolytonia!

The time has come (once again), to strike, and strike we must. I suggest that right now, we go after the old enemy, Bismarck. Bismarck will fall easily, I think, though he will drag in others for war. I do not think, though, that anyone can come into this war and beat us now, however, we are simply far too powerful for that. Instead, Bismarck will be totally whipped, and we will then proceed to chew up anyone else who he's called in.

Then, we must hit Greece. Take them both out, totally.

[E_T]

Another thing to consider is that WW works differntly when we declare and when someone else declare against us. The two will actually balance each out for a time. This actually gives us a few more turns to fight without any problems.

E_T

[ruby_maser]

If only we had real espionage up and running. We could deliberately screw up a mission to try and get a war declared against us. That would prevent war weariness for awhile. Plus, if we chose to get a MPP with another nation, they would not have a choice as to whether to come to our aid or not; whereas, with us being the aggressors, they can sit back and wait until the enemy attacks us on our home soil.

[mrmitchell]

Just noticed, I skipped thru thread so do not know if anyone else noticed:

The GREG plan.
Greece/Germany, Rome, England, Greece/Germany.

[Aggie]

As Smc and our next President I hereby declare our intention is war against germany. We must prepare for this and steps are already being executed to secure the required forces. This war will take place when we have bought all possible techs and have 20 calvary to throw into battle. It will be bloody since we will be fighting riflemen. but we can swarm over and take many cities quickly, we can either raze these cities or hold them,
Aggie

[ruby_maser]

I would suggest, humbly of course , more than twenty calvary. Twenty seems the bare minimum for a situation that may lead to an alliance against us.

I would hope for a poll on the matter to see where the nation stands concerning the amount of preparation that should be invested in a plan as risky as this.

But I'm all for it in the long run

[Aggie]

The 20 calvary are just for the point of attack, other forces will be available elsewhere.
Aggie

[Harovan]

Finally a new War Academy thread . Good work, Shiber and everyone. And I think your plans are great.

[Meshelic]

Germany it is? Well then, I'd rather humbly suggest to our SMC and probable future President that we deploy more than 20 cavalry. Germany is a fortress, much stronger than the Persians were, the French were, and are certainly more powerful than the Greeks and English, I daresay combined.... and really the only power that stands in our way of controlling the entire head of the continent.

If this is to garner public support it should begin now. To have all the ministers, the people and etc to agree to move towards preemptive war could be a long task (although I admit it has been done in the past, it has not been done recently with a foe of this power).

You have the full support of the Hawks! May Bismarck forever languish as the "Presidential Kicking Stool".

[roadcage]

Operation canyontree

German situation

Outstanding deals trade datum 940 ab
(4)Dyes & Incense
(13) Peace Treaty

Known Strategic resources
1 horse (within explorer range)
2 iron (1 reverts to us with Hamburg)
2 saltpeter (1 within explorer range)

Future Strategic resources
rubber (doubtful, Germany has no jungle)
coal (probable, no jungle but lots of montains and hills)

Tentative declaration 1070 ab
with immediate attack

Pre attack Diplomacy
Allow Dyes & Incense to run (do not re-negotiate)
Negotiate MPP with as many of following as practical
Greece
England
Aztecs

Pre Attack infrastructure
road required north then northeast from Seeburg across mountain to hills
road required north of New York

Basic plan:
10 suicide explorers (will recieve congressinal banana of honor)
position to achieve specified pillaging targets.
3 Battlegroups of Cavalry supported position for targets

1st turn
10 explorers
5 pillage squares around Berlin within range
1 pilage the horse resource
1 pillage the saltpeter nw of Cologne
(the iron east of Hamburg should become ours without pillaging)
3 see below
Cavalry Battlegroup Alpha moves from Seeburg staging across proposed road
and attacking Hamburg immediate
Muskets/?Riflemen?, (less 1) staged on hill with 2nd turn explorers relieve the Cavalry in Hamburg
cover the wounded Cavalry just outside Hamburg
Remaining Musket/?Rifleman? and cannon advance so as to relieve Bravo in Frankfurt next turn.
Remaining explorers advance to Hamburg for next turn deployment
Cavalry Battlegroups Bravo and Charlie move from New York staging across proposed road
ending turn on mountain East of Frankfurt (in range of Frankfurt and Hanover)
2nd turn
explorers in Hamburg take out remaining tiles around Berlin
any surviving explorers from turn 1 take out roads of opportunity furthur north
with 1st priority to saltpeter between Berlin and Leipzig.
Cavalry Battle Group Bravo attacks and sacks Hanover
all retiring to the mountain
Cavalry Battlegroup Charlie attacks and captures Frankfurt.
all occupying Frankfurt
Musket and cannon from Battle Group Alpha relieves Cavalry in Frankfurt
Serious wounded in Battlegroup Alpha retire to Hamburg
Light wounded and healthy in Battlegroup Alpha stage to Frankfurt

Situation after 2 turns

Berlin isolated
only remaining resource is iron West of Heidelburg, but not connected to capitol
Hanover sacked
Frankfurt captured now staging for next target (?Leipzig?)
Hamburg captured now healing Cavalry.

Do not rush to take Berlin! It should go into disorder when it looses all luxurys.
Let them suffer for a while.

That's as far as I can visualize it. Perhaps one of the real generals can extend to 4 or 5 turns.
Also unclear to me which battlegroup should be led by Khufu's Army.
And someone needs to estimnate the Cavalry required. My gut feeling is around 10 for each Battlegroup plus Khufu.

respectfully submitted
ssgt roadcage (retired)

[E_T]

Originally posted by roadcage
Operation canyontree

German situation

Outstanding deals trade datum 940 ab
(4)Dyes & Incense
(13) Peace Treaty

Known Strategic resources
1 horse (within explorer range)
2 iron (1 reverts to us with Hamburg)
2 saltpeter (1 within explorer range)

Future Strategic resources
rubber (doubtful, Germany has no jungle)
coal (probable, no jungle but lots of montains and hills)

Tentative declaration 1070 ab
with immediate attack

Nice plan, but the might be one Beerstein in it. FAM Togas might want to use the Dye & Incense Renegotiations to get technologies (20 additional turns). Further, the current peace deal has LPT attached and Germany won't let that go without renegoting it to Zero. So add 20 turns to your estimations. BUT, this WILL allow us to really be prepaired for others to go against us and to have a better offensive & bombardment force to use against them all.

E_T

[roadcage]

13 turn delay is probably maximum that this plan can stand. It really should be sooner but our rep....

If it were pushed out another 20 turns, then the plan would have to be re-evaluated in light of Infantry, Tanks and Panzers.

Fortunately I think our jungle start will have us controlling almost all rubber on the main continent. Hence Germany will not be able to field Infantry or it's UU. We on the otherhand may or may not have oil for our Tanks.

And the basic plan assumed the 3 move capability of Cavalry and would have to be significantly revised for 2 move Tanks.

But I never claimned it was a finished plan, just a possible beginning of one.

ssgt roadcage (retired)

[Kloreep]

I doubt Tanks will be here anytime soon, even with a twenty turn delay. It seems to me there's always a major speed-up in tech at the end of an age; but at the beginning of one, most civs meet the roadbump of a jump in beaker costs.

I'd say it's pretty likely they'll have Infantry as soon as Replacable Parts comes around, though. Somebody is gonna have some spare rubber burning a hole in their pocket, and Germany's tech lead means they'll easily be able to pay for it.