Area 25: Useless Industrial Innovations

[Kloreep]

I agree with Randolph. Gives us good chance at Hoovers (as long as we pre-build ToE) and lets us follow up the industry rush with Sanitation and Replacable Parts.

[Apocalypse]

Originally posted by ManicStarSeed
Isn't this the first step in planning.... Random ideas=brainstorming, Thud can use this to formulate a plan. We will know that the plan was formulated AFTER (and based upon)some discussion.

The brainstorming comes in other threads about the course of the civilization. The tech plans need to be based somewhat on those.

[mrmitchell]

Okay, Apoc, if it's random ideas so far, let us get

1. Steam Power (IIRC it gives railroads)

first. I think we can all (hopefully) agree on that. Or, I hope we can.

[Thud]

We could agree on that, except the AI will stop at nothing to get that tech first. On the other hand, perhaps the Hawks want to go to war to get it first

[realpolitic]

I favor Industralization(hopefully with Sufferage) then Sanitation, then once we build Hospitals,cram them with workers to speed our tech rate. Cramming our Core Hospital cities can speed our tech enough to get us to Hoover about as fast as goung straight for it.

[Zero]

i say beeline for electronics right away and trade for other priority techs that are out of electronic tree.

[Jonny]

My usual Industrial Age research plan is as follows:

Nationalism
Medicine
Sanitation
Then a beeline for Electronics, BUT getting Replaceable Parts along the way.

If we make progress quickly along the Electronics beeline (i.e., we get the techs along the way before anyone else), we can trade for the techs we passed.

[Meshelic]

Originally posted by Thud
We could agree on that, except the AI will stop at nothing to get that tech first. On the other hand, perhaps the Hawks want to go to war to get it first

YES! Lets do it guys! Go Hawks! hehe

Everyone 's Hawks, right?

[Randolph]

Originally posted by Apocalypse
See why some set plans are needed? People are just spurting out random ideas. Nothing very constructive going on at the moment.

In light of this comment (and since I’ve received some agreement), perhaps I should flush out the reasoning behind this plan (I didn’t want to go overboard to begin with).

* steam -> industry (for rails and factories)

IMO This is the most important aspect of industrialization, even more important than 12+ city growth: 1. very few cities will grow past 12 very fast w/out the bonus food from railroads. 2. It makes much more sense to build up your shield production first and than build “other things” (wonders, hospitals, modern units). If we “go right for electronics” (or something else) we’ll have to build hover dam (and ToE) with minimal shield production.

* Then -> scientific method (I know there are several between)

It’s unlikely that cities will be ready to build hospitals if you go right for sanitation (assuming we have a good research pace). 1. Two ‘Big cities’ will build: factory -> coal plant -> wonder, this will give you plenty of time to research sanitation (which could be your next researched advance after SM (this is only a two tech deviation from sanitation) 2. ‘smaller cities’ will only need a factory, but this will take them long enough. If they do finish before sanitation we’ll probably have ‘something useful for them to do’, and if not some ‘wealth’ cities are great during this period of great need of both fast techs and cash.

Also if we do this and build ToE quickly we will be almost guaranteed HD.

* Build TOE

During construction: Sanitation, replaceable parts, or the corporation (more than one if possible, or move to refining after TC)

Ideally I would chose Sanitation and replaceable parts; sanitation first if your cities will be ‘ready to build hospitals’ (i.e. factories are already build in a fair number of ‘growers’), and RP if they will not or there are defense issues.

* Get atomic theory -> electronics with TOE

Make sure that you switch to AT the turn before you get ToE and switch science to 0%.

I’m quite sure that atomic theory and electronics is the most expensive duo that you can get with ToE (I don’t have the game with me to check this). One could research atomic theory and get electronics and ‘something else’ w/ ToE, but why not research an advance that you get something tangible from (like sanitation or replaceable parts) first, since you’ll have electronics at the same time either way.

* Build Hover Dam

Once hover dam is build (and I feel this is the fastest way to get it), in addition to the obvious benefit, we will have a number of largely ‘useless’ wonders to trade to the computer who has hopefully been diligently been researching ‘the corporation path’ (or either sanitation or RP if we haven’t researched them yet).

[Kloreep]

I'd just like to add that I think Replacable Parts should be researched at the earliest possible opportunity. It will make our workers rail like nobody's business, and since it looks like we're going to skip Nationalism for a while, we'll need Infantry for a good anti-cavalry defense.

Edit: Of course, I think we should go with Randolph's suggestions first. I just think Replacable Parts is the most valuable tech for us once we're on the road the Hoover's, even better than Sanitation or a tech we can trade around.

[joncnunn]

Why is it that most posts simply assume we are going to be faster than average researching in the early industrial age when so far we have been close to dead last reseraching things ourselves?

[Kloreep]

Originally posted by joncnunn
Why is it that most posts simply assume we are going to be faster than average researching in the early industrial age when so far we have been close to dead last reseraching things ourselves?

Well, the Industrial Age is still several techs away. Also, most of our commerce has been devoted to our treasury; once we build some libraries and move the science slider forward, I think we will be able to get techs in under 20 turns - even in the Industrial Age, as long as the FP is built on schedule.

But you're right, it will still be very slow, especially compared to the AI.

[Shiber]

IMHO the AIs are researching in expense of their economy. I remember seeing a screenshot of an investigation of Berlin that showed that they are directing 90% of the commerce to science. I wouldn't be surprised to find out that the other AIs that are leading in tech are doing the same.

[Shiber]

-Double post.-

[joncnunn]

At the current pace, the AIs are very close to entering the Industrail Age.

(We know that several already have Metalurgy. This leaves only Theory of Gravity and Magnetism left in the required techs. The AIs will split primarly for Magnetism, but enough will pick Theory of Gravity for them to swap, enter the Industrial Age with the Scientific civs being granted Nationalism.

Attempting to Reserach any early industrial tech in more than 15 turns (except for dead end Communism / Epsiopage) is a waste of time & money.

We need something like a research rate of 8 or 9 turns starting at the same time to be first to Steam Power. (A heavy favorite for first AI research)

Up to 12 turns to Medicine gives us a shot at being first to Medicine if we go for that directly.

I highly doubt the Forbiden Palace will be finished before the AIs enter the Industrial age unless we get a Great Leader during the French war.

Originally posted by Kloreep

Well, the Industrial Age is still several techs away. Also, most of our commerce has been devoted to our treasury; once we build some libraries and move the science slider forward, I think we will be able to get techs in under 20 turns - even in the Industrial Age, as long as the FP is built on schedule.

But you're right, it will still be very slow, especially compared to the AI.