Replacing Godking

[zeit]

In the previous turnchat (6/10) GodKing asked someone to volunteer to be his replacement for the next turn phase, and i did. So i'll be replacing him, i hope GK can certify of that. In this opportunity i also ask that some 1000 lytons or so will be dedicated for rusing a few temples and courthouses over the next 3 turns, as Shiber suggested, this will be most important for the GA we are about to have, most likely in the next 1-2 turns (dpepends on Aggie's tactics and if we even declare on america at all). I know this is a bit too much, and i can cut it to the neccesary, but i really need few hundred lytons- this will pay off in the GA, and hopefully a Republic as well.

[GhengisFarbâ„¢]

What about Astronomy and Gunpowder? Purchasing Astronomy and discovering the Lost Civs first would double our money faster than building temples would.

[Shiber]

We can pay for that in gpt.
We need to reserve our hard cash for hurrying. It's an emergency in terms of city planning - the 20 turn Golden Age is arriving and we're not prepared!

[GhengisFarbâ„¢]

I believe this would be a poor time to have a GA as we still haven't cleared or roaded many of out tiles.

[Shiber]

It's either now or we wait until The Hoover Dam and build it. We won't get any other chances to use our WCs.

[GhengisFarbâ„¢]

Originally posted by Shiber
It's either now or we wait until The Hoover Dam and build it. We won't get any other chances to use our WCs.

That's bull, we can use our wc's anytime we want. France is our "war on the shelf", just declare war, bop a Frenchie on the head and instant GA.

[Shiber]

And when are we going to attack France?

It seems to me that this discussion is pointless. It's always "better" to have the GA later. Why have it now when we haven't cleared and improved all of our jungle yet? But then when we're done clearing jungle, roading and mining people will want marketplaces and banks in every city to make better use of the commerce bonus the GA gives. We do that and people ask for courthouses so that we will suffer from less corruption and lose less of the extra commerce to corruption. We do that, and then people start asking for FACTORIES so that we can make more use of the production bonus.
Now would be an excellent time for a GA. We need the boost to start building proper infrastructure and to finish a palace and a forbidden palace. The more we hold the GA, the more we hold the palace+FP and the much-needed, over-delayed infrastructure upgrade.

[GhengisFarbâ„¢]

The question is do we NEED a GA now?

No, we're winning the game. We are at the forefront in military, culture, land area, resources, luxuries, AND tech.

The only reason we don't have Astronomy and Gunpowder is we CHOOSE every turn not to acquire them. We can buy them anytime we want them.

So why use a GA ineffieciently when we don't need it right now.

[MrWhereItsAt]

We can't possibly replace GodKing, only succeed him.

[Shiber]

You forgot to mention that we are the most underdeveloped country in the known world after the Iroquois. Furthermore, buying techs will not always be that easy.
We need this GA now to build the new palace and FP and work on our city infrastructure, meaning building those long-overdue courthouses and libraries.

[UnOrthOdOx]

That's all fine and good except the Palace/FP debate is not concluded yet. Do we need to stop the game over that? That decision is imperitive NOW! What is taking so long? Get those started, and lets move on!

[Aggie]

Shiber france has many warriors even if we just have a few chariots available we could get a GA then. Even a brief war of 5 turns could gain us almost all there nation so I don't know if we should have a GA now. I have suggested an emergency plan that will spy on america, BEFORE the next turn chat. When that mission is complete I can determine if it is ok to wait for knights to attack America.
Aggie

[Shiber]

You have a point there. In any case, my point was mute because attacking French swordsmen with WCs is just as difficult as attacking American spearman (in fact more difficult since the latter are fortified).
I still think a GA is necessary to build up our infrastructure, but I've changed my mind about when to get the GA. Instead, I propose that Apolytonia switches governments to Republic even this turn and attacks with the two knights currently near Gaia the next turn (500 AD). Once we're out of Anarchy and in Republic, use the WCs to take New York and generate a GA.
The reason for this is that we will not switch governments during the Golden Age since that will be wasteful. Therefore if we get a GA now we will have to postpone the switch to Republic in 20 turns.

[E_T]

Originally posted by GhengisFarb
The question is do we NEED a GA now?

Yes, we need to use it to bring our GRAVELY laking infrastructure/improvements up to some form of decent level.

No, we're winning the game. We are at the forefront in military, culture, land area, resources, luxuries, AND tech.

We are at a critical juncture were we can BE a Great Power, or be second class. The reason why we are at the forfront in culture is that we got Temples in our cities first, while the other Civs build Coloseums (more culture, but starting later). They now have libraries, temples, Cathedrals & Universities. We started earlier, but they will quickly catch us up and pass us by.

Land Area. Well we have taken it from other Civs. But if we don't keep up with the military technologies, then someone (or ones) will come and TAKE it from us and we won't be able to stop them.

We do have Knights, Swords, Longbowman, Catupults & Pikemen. But there will soon be Musketmen, Cannon, Cavalry & Riflemen soon on the seen. And most likely the other Civs will have them first. Rome & Germany have Gunpowder and if we tried to take them on now (assuming they have muskets) we would lose, or just beat ourselves up against them. We need to beable to generate for ourselves the needed technologies to survive.

Resources, well there aren't that many yet, Iron & Horses. Saltpeter is now available to a select few. Where is it, no one knows. The closest to us might be underneath Washington. What de we do then. We just renegotiated Peace with everybody BUT america. It will be 17 turns until the deal is cancelable (hey, a GA last for 20 turns, what great timing). And the all important Coal will be here fairly soon to, and we wnat to be there when it's first discovered.

Luxuries, we have control of 4 of the 5 Luxuries that Anabanana has available (Wine, Dye, Incense & Dye). We trade for the 5th one, Ivory. We have no surplus that we can trade the lost Civs for their Furs, Gems & Silks. And even if we get contact with them next turn, we will NOT be able to trade with them because we still need Navigation or Magnetism (or one of the lost civs does). One thing that I've noticed is that the AI won't build a harbor until it needs it for trade. If that's the case, it might be a while before we see those lost Luxuries. And our military would not be in a position to take those luxuries by force, they're just too far away.

Technology, the final critical item that EVERYTHING else is key to. The argument if that we can take the technologies from the other Civs, as we wish. Or that we can buy the technologies as we get the cash. We need the Cash to help purchase our needed Infrastructure/Improvements, so that option is out somewhat. And the prices will only be increasing.

The only reason we don't have Astronomy and Gunpowder is we CHOOSE every turn not to acquire them. We can buy them anytime we want them.

We only choose not to buy them because they are TOO EXPENSIVE. We would seriously compramize our economy if we did. We CAN choose to work up the research for the techs.

So why use a GA ineffieciently when we don't need it right now.

We need a GA, a Republican GA if we are to catch up to the other Civs before the end of the Middle Ages. We can accomplish this AND still wage some minor wars, if need be. I would rather work towards building up to annex some of Germany. Berlin is very close to the Border and they have Copernagus's Observatory. Otto will be knocking on our door fairly soon, we need to be prepaired for it!

E_T

[History Guy]

OK, so in other words, I can't run against you, eh? Something sounds fishy here...