Hawks: Rise Up!

[Meshelic]

AGGIE- I totally agree, a navy must be built to transport our units to the new world. If we can find lost civz that can put our opponents in check by either trading with us or tasting the sword, then would that not be the most beneficial to us at the moment?

ET - very good points all around

historyguy - I support your information of the Germans strengthening their position; I have seen the buildup myself during a routine Shadow Service tour, Otto DOES hold grudges (we all know this). I believe we must tread lightly...

we need to jumpstart our economy, somehow

[GePap]

Bah to the warmongers!

We lack the economic capacity to stike at Rome, an be well defended from other atatcks_ I have said this before- we have always won because we have always picked on the waek, the helpless, the unfortunite. We have never fought a strong opponent, which is wjy our victories have been spectacular. America was and is a joke, the same for France,a dn Persia, without Iron. Had Perisa had iron from the start, we might very easily not be celebrating in Persepolis. But the Germans, the Aztecs, the Romans have iron, have horses, and have had time to prepare- they also have far more technology than us.

We can't losse with what we have- we CAN loose if a grand coolition is formed against us due to mindless aggression in our part. Victory is in our grasp- and blood for brains types shoul not be allowed to squander it!


DOWN WITH THE WARMONGERS! LONG LIVE APOLYTON!

[XOR]

Originally posted by GePap
Bah to the warmongers!

We lack the economic capacity to stike at Rome, an be well defended from other atatcks_ I have said this before- we have always won because we have always picked on the waek, the helpless, the unfortunite. We have never fought a strong opponent, which is wjy our victories have been spectacular. America was and is a joke, the same for France,a dn Persia, without Iron. Had Perisa had iron from the start, we might very easily not be celebrating in Persepolis. But the Germans, the Aztecs, the Romans have iron, have horses, and have had time to prepare- they also have far more technology than us.

We can't losse with what we have- we CAN loose if a grand coolition is formed against us due to mindless aggression in our part. Victory is in our grasp- and blood for brains types shoul not be allowed to squander it!

This is true, and we cannot allow this to continue any further. This is why we must act according to what I described in my previous post.

[Meshelic]

War with the Persians has gotten us nearly twice the amount of land, as well as technology we would have been slow to research in the future. So far war has treated our civilization well, and will continue to treat us well in the future.

I agree with some of the 'moderates' here that the next 20 turns (at least) SHOULD be devoted towards restructuring and tying our great civ into a modern civilization that can stand up to the Romans... To do this we obviously need a long period of peace to not only shed our warmongering reputation (although this will have to be reinstated later) but achieve vast gains in science, the economy and the military.

If the Romans see us with a weak military they will surely look down their nose at us, as well as the rest of the nations. We need to be taken seriously and that is what happens with military might, whether we wield it at the moment or not.

We need to restructure, but only in the ultimate goal of coordinating a large army to field.

[jdd2007]

'restructuring' is fine, as long as it involves lots of unit-building

[XOR]

Originally posted by jdd2007
'restructuring' is fine, as long as it involves lots of unit-building

Since the higher production cities will be ready faster those cities can start producing units and stacking them at strategic positions near the German and Greek borders (in case they attack).

Even during the industrial development process we can continue to attack utterly weak neighbors. Liberating New York and Boston is just a matter of upgrading the 4 nearby charriots and using them to conquer the 2 cities. I'm for attacking NY first because the capitol gets extra defense and if we attack Boston first both cities would be the capitol at the time we attack them.

After conquering America, there's France, the other uterly weak neighbor. There for us to take, but we should be carefull to maintain friendly relationships with everyone else, or at least keep some trade going on so they dont declare war, or so their reputation at least suffers from such action.

[GePap]

Gunpowder is upon us folks, and the Krauts and Romans have it. Lets hope the Romans have no saltpeter, ditto for Herr Bismakr- but that is unlikely. And if the Aztecs win America, we might not have any ourselves. How will we take huge metropolises like berlin with knights vs. Musketmen?

Technology is making the Hawk strategy, for now, impotent.

[Meshelic]

Of course we should continue to build more units during the course of our 'restructuring', a good mix here will aid us in coming conflicts.

As far as the restructuring process is concerned; temples, marketplaces, (city walls) and the clearing of the jungles should be on top of the agenda, however these are no substitute to a large military force, not to mention the 'expeditionary' force that will be necessary to discover the lost civz.

[Meshelic]

[QUOTE] Originally posted by XOR

I'm for attacking NY first because the capitol gets extra defense and if we attack Boston first both cities would be the capitol at the time we attack them.

Wise...

After conquering America, there's France, the other uterly weak neighbor. There for us to take,

A meticulously planned military campaign will take the French, such plans should be discussed in the War Academy...

[XOR]

Originally posted by GePap
Gunpowder is upon us folks, and the Krauts and Romans have it. Lets hope the Romans have no saltpeter, ditto for Herr Bismakr- but that is unlikely. And if the Aztecs win America, we might not have any ourselves. How will we take huge metropolises like berlin with knights vs. Musketmen?

Technology is making the Hawk strategy, for now, impotent.

For now it is impossible that all their pikes have been upgraded to musketmen, even if they did have gunpowder.

We can take any huge metropolis with knights as long as we lay some severe siege and turn it into a town. But trust me, in general, knights are good enough to deal with musketmen, I usualy play Japs and I rape the hell out of those stupid musketmen with samurais. We will, of course, lose a few knights on every city we attack but that's how it works, and that's why we require to increase our industrial base, and that's why aqueducts should be within our construction priorities too.

[Meshelic]

Originally posted by GePap
Technology is making the Hawk strategy, for now, impotent.

During this stage in the game it is difficult to continue the warpath if you aren't on top of the science race, we need to research gunpowder soon to make other nations think twice before they ally against us (as if any of them could realistically think to take us on, especially under the great leadership of General Aggie).

[Arnelos]

Originally posted by Meshelic


During this stage in the game it is difficult to continue the warpath if you aren't on top of the science race, we need to research gunpowder soon to make other nations think twice before they ally against us (as if any of them could realistically think to take us on, especially under the great leadership of General Aggie).

If they get Cavalry before we have musketmen... we're going to be weeping...

(and even if they have large numbers of cavalry even after we DO have musketmen... we're STILL going to be weeping)

I strongly suggest that you hawks at least consider the sheer monstrous level of stupidity it would require to attack anyone other than France after America. Now that two civs have musketmen... it won't be long before they all do... and once our knights get bogged down fighting fortified musketmen in metropolises... the AI's are going to smell blood...

The only way to out-do this is to build up our defense and infrastructure to a point where EVEN if we get bogged down while fighting another civ (like Greece or England, the most vulnerable after France) that we don't have to worry as much about being absolutely wide open to any other AI who cares to notice...

Seriously, we need to develop our infrastructure and defense - currently it's laughable.

[History Guy]

For once, Arnelos is right. I think France, America, and Persia should all be totally annexed, to the last city, but after that our campaigns of conquest must be put on hold to boost culture and learning.

[XOR]

Originally posted by History Guy
For once, Arnelos is right. I think France, America, and Persia should all be totally annexed, to the last city, but after that our campaigns of conquest must be put on hold to boost culture and learning.

Nooooooo!!!. We are fine in culture, if anyone builds more culture than us, we kill him. We can cultuwin like this if you want your cultuwin so badly...

My proposal is to conquer america and france while developing the INDUSTRIAL BASE (ie. improving mainly productcion and cashflow) and then stack up a mighty army to invade Grece. We will probably invade Grece with Cavalries.

Oh, yes, if the AI get's military tradition and does not want to hand it over there's always the option of espionage.

[Meshelic]

Arnelos - you are correct in that we need to build our infrastructure and defense and I will not disagree with you there, I DO think we should build up culture and our industrial base, but much of that comes with the clearing of our jungles, which is being taken care of by a huge force of 'volunteers' from our conquered foes. Through conquest (err, foreign volunteers) we have accumulated a massive workforce that will accomplish just that...but is still seperate from the military