Strategy for the American campaign

[Arnelos]

Originally posted by XOR
the people in those french cities should be taught to speak our language.

D*** straight!

[Honor]

I should have been little more clear about what I meant: the AI govs rarely fight meaningful wars that don't include the human player... once in a while, they'll declare war on each other without your inolvement, but usually those wars end with a maximum of one or two small cities changing hands. If you want to have a decisive war, it seems like you need to be in the middle of it. (For example I did set up a 3v2 war once, where I was one of the 2 and watched as my Zulu ally lose 3 of 6 cities to the Babylonians, Persians, and Greeks.)

[Aggie]

Definitely speed is the key. If we win quickly in 1turn there is no chance of an alliance and no war wearniness.
Perhaps 3 knights can go to chicago and 2knights and wc goto washington and the other attacks go as planned.
Aggie

[Donegeal]

Speed is not the key, it is the only way. Any war with America MUST be done in one turn. Germany is itching for a fight and would go to war with us for next to nothing. If this happens, Our forces would be out of place to defend our cities as they would be tied up in Pina Colada when the would be needed in El Nino.

One turn American War!

[Arnelos]

Wow, the thread de-cloaked now... eery

[Arnelos]

Originally posted by Honor
I should have been little more clear about what I meant: the AI govs rarely fight meaningful wars that don't include the human player... once in a while, they'll declare war on each other without your inolvement, but usually those wars end with a maximum of one or two small cities changing hands. If you want to have a decisive war, it seems like you need to be in the middle of it. (For example I did set up a 3v2 war once, where I was one of the 2 and watched as my Zulu ally lose 3 of 6 cities to the Babylonians, Persians, and Greeks.)

Actually, I've seen (rare) cases where this has not been true. One example is that I played a game on a huge map where I (China) was the dominant power on one continent and Persia and Greece were the dominant powers on the other continent. Persia completely annexed Egypt and Russia while Greece mostly annexed Babylon and was fighting Rome - this throughout much of the late middle age and early industrial age. Later in the same game, the Aztecs (on a third continent with America, Germany, and England) invaded America and took much of it over before I (China) intervened and took over the aztecs. On that third continent, the Germans and Americans had been at war with the English and Aztecs (both sides allied against their opponents).

I could go on, but that one game had an absolute TON of AI-vs-AI wars where they seriously devoted to the conflicts.

This said, however, I will agree that this game I played a few months ago is notable because it is such an amazing exception. I have also noticed that MOST games go by where the AI players NEVER fight one another throughout the entire game unless YOU are the cause of the conflict. My most recent 2 games are good examples of this.

I honestly don't know what leads the AI's to go to war... it would be interesting to figure out (or simply hear from Firaxis or whatever...) what the algorythm is behind whether the AI goes to war... would be VERY interesting to learn that. I suspect, from my own experience, that at least part of the algorithm must have to do with whether a hegemonic power exists (typically the human player). For instance:

IF human player is hegemonic power THEN AI players will refrain from fighting one another (in order to aggressively trade techs with each other and hopefully catch up to the hegemon or at least keep them in check)

IF no hegemonic power exists or especially if the human player is not hegemonic THEN AI players may feel free to invade one another as they see fit.

Anecdotally, I wouldn't be surprised if that's what Firaxis had in mind...

[Shiber]

Arnelos, I think you're right.
I've experienced similar behavior and it's very possible that this is indeed what Firaxis had in mind.

[XOR]

Bah, do whatever you want then, I just say to get the americans as soon as possible instead of as fast as possible. We still have the Persians to deal with.

[History Guy]

In my opinion, we can take out the Americans in about three turns at most, but I think we should get Chicago first.

My question, however, is this:

How close are German ties to America? Would Bismarck attack us to avenge Mr. Lincoln even if he goes out before he can contact the Germans for assistance? What I mean to say is, when the Americans are gone, will the Germans instinctively attack? I know that Bismarck is a warmonger, and a powerful enemy, and I know that catching us while attacking Lincoln and Xerxes and declaring war would be very dangerous indeed. This is why it is so imperative that we take out Lincoln in a single turn altogether, so that he doesn't get the chance to establish a military alliance with Germany. But, would Germany attack us even after Lincoln was gone, considering Emperor Otto's intense hatred of our people?

[Shiber]

I think that if you renegotiate peace when its diplomatically possible and instead of continuing the treaty you cancel it (thus declaring war), you don't have to wait 5 turns to be able to diplomatically contact the AI. Rather than that, you can sign a peace treaty the next turn or even during the same turn that you declared war.
If anyone can confirm this, then if the government decides to make this a 1 turn war in order not to allow the AIs any time to ally against us, we'll be able to sign peace with the Americans in the unlikely event that we are not able to take all their cities in one turn.

[Donegeal]

If we do a 1 turn war against America, there should still be an order to what cities we attack, not much of one, but at least an order. The only rule to this order would be to attack the capitol last. If we attack the capitol any other time, another city would instantly become the new capitol and would then become the next size city (ie village becomes a town, town becomes metroplis). The larger the city, the better the defensive bonuses of the units in that city.

[GhengisFarbâ„¢]

Not necessarily on topic, bu what's the plan for Rheims and Chartres?

[Inverse Icarus]

i love 1 turn wars

but i'd use 4 knights (or knight/wc mix) on their "main" cities, no matter how small they are. just to be safe

and then france... bwaaaahahaha

i salute aggie, and all other apolytonians who participate in the war academy. you have not only filled my shoes, you have humbled me with your excellence.

[GePap]

The Americans are alone- they are extremely weak and poor also. They are far behind in techs and have nothing to trade: no one will stick thei necks out for Abe.

If we want to minimize the diplomatic impact, as I said, we could ally with the Aztecs against the Americans. Make aslightly better friend for a while with Tenochtitlan and make other civs less likely to intervene.

Going along with what Arnelos said: We ave become number one civ, but only slightly in front of Greece, so we are not really hegemonic- thouh AI behavior towards us may change now that we are #1, not #2. I think a war with france will be more dilomatically challenging than one against America. France has more money and territory, more terrain, and ebsides, French territory is in a valuable strategic position.

I see three posible scenerios about a war with france: Either all goes well, is us vs. them and its done in 8-10 turns, or other civs, mainly Rome, decide to pick off French cities as we advance: the vulture scenerio, or the French, as they didi last time, get a ouple of other civs, most like germany and someone else to go to war with us.

May I add a last point. It seems o me the AI is somewhat slow in upograding their armies in peacetime. Many civs can make knights, but only us and the aztecs have- the only civs at war that can make them. If other civs o to war, even among themselves, we would soon face much bigger and dealier enemy forces. We have to make sure to plan for quick and decisive attacks. This is more ture of a war wth France, since the Americans are so weak a one turn war, which is very desirable, is very possible.

[Robber Baron]

I think fears that wiping out America would provoke a German attack are well grounded.
Not that we shouldn't take out the Yanks regardless. We just need to be ready, that's all -- with beefed up defences in our cities bordering Germany, and a mobile counterattack force ready. These elements represent vital components of an American war plan, IMO.