What do we do with our great leader

[GhengisFarbâ„¢]

I used to be for the army but I feel we'll generate at least one more in the Persian war and I really don't like the idea of one of our AI competitors on the continent getting Sun Tzu.

[Sheik]

Lets use the leader to create an army and then build heroic epic for more GLs later.

We can build Sun Tzu with another GL or just build it naturally.

[Aggie]

One reason i have against army is this, we would have a pretty poor excuse for an army with jusy swords, i usually prefer to have at least knights in the army. Of course lets face it, it would be nice to have a 3 sword army that could pound persians cities pretty much without fear of defeat. Still I think after much consideration i have to push for a wonder and Sun Tsu's War Academy would be a might prize, but for the record it is a hard choice and i would enjoy an army too, so either way as SMC i win.
Aggie

[Donal Graeme]

Why is everyone talking about Sun Tsu, and not the Sistine Chapel? Is there some problem with Michelangelo? The idea of doubling the effects of Cathedrals sounds very good, and don't forget they are easier to build than for a non-religious civ. I am spit between Sun Tsu and Sistine Chapel(should we get Theology somehow). An Army won't be very effective right now, and it would take a while to build the Heroic Epic. Frankly, better to us the GL right now.

[Hot_Enamel]

Definately an ARMY !
Then the heroic epic !

Worry about what to wonder to rush with the 2nd leader

[Donal Graeme]

Good point actually, we can get the army now, and save it for Knights or Cav. In the meantime we could get another great leader, and use him to rush a wonder. And should we not get another GL in this war, with our army we could prepare a FP somewhere, start a war with the army, and be able to build the Heroic Epic quickly. This is no easy choice.

[notyoueither]

Put 2 horse in the army. A cav can be added later to add to the strength, and then a tank.

[Shiber]

I'd normally say first army so we could build the Heroic Epic later to get more great leaders but this is an exception. Sun Tzu's Art of War is a wonder that we simply CANNOT pass up, plus if one of our foes gets it before we do they'll be terribly hard to defeat later.

[OPD]

As it doesn't look like FP can win I'll have to say army. Wonder would be nice but there aren't any decent ones avaliable ATM.

Edit except perhaps if we wait a few turns and build sistine.

[notyoueither]

Sun Tzu's is one of the least valuable Wonders.

You can build barracks where ever you need them in the fullness of time.

With competent handeling, any human controlled army of comparable size will demolish any AI army.

The AI having 4 pips instead of 3 is no big deal; and if we plan right, we shouldn't be hard pressed without the free barracks either.

[MrWhereItsAt]

I agree with the Army idea. Sun Tzu's ain't too necessary with all our Barracks, and we will have plenty of opportunities for more GLs (hopefully) in the continuation of the war. The one thing it looks like most of us agrrree on is that we must deal with the GL now.

[Shiber]

Originally posted by notyoueither
The AI having 4 pips instead of 3 is no big deal;

It increases their chances of winning a battle by 33%. It makes a huge difference, especially when we're fighting long campaigns.
The AIs don't tend to build barracks. I usually find myself facing regular units even during the industrial age. With Sun Tzu's wonder the AI that builds it will become much more powerful.
Greece, England, Rome and Germany, the four toughest civs are likely to get it since they've already been building it for quite some time and they are the most productive civs. Would you like to face a Greek army that is 1.33 times stronger?

Originally posted by OPD
Wonder would be nice but there aren't any decent ones avaliable ATM.

Once we sue Persia for peace we can get Theology from them. However it won't be wise to wait until then because the GL can reach Mingapulco (I believe this is where we want to build our wonder if we decide to do so) within two to three turns.
Since we can't buy Theology from any of the other civs for a decent price, and since we want to continue the Persian campaign for now, it means that voting for using the GL for a wonder and doing it now means voting for using it for Sun Tzu's wonder. There are no other options available to us.

[GhengisFarbâ„¢]

This leader should NOT be used for the Sistine Chapel! The Sistine Chapel is not worth the sacrifice of the Heroic Epic, 1-2 armies, AND the Forbidden Palace which is exactly what it could cost us if we sit on this GL and decide not to generate anymore until we get Theology.

I say Sun Tzu as its like pulling teeth to get anyone in our civ to allow the building of barracks as they all want to build walls. The biggest benefit is the fact that the AI doesn't have it so we will only face regular status against most of their military units. Also, there's the cost savings of not having to pay maintenance for all those barracks.

I think Sun Tzu OR army but there is NO REASON to not use it immediately, that's simply poor game play strategy. I also think it should be built in a close city like Ubergorsk.

Ubergorsk is fitting as it was right on the battlezone with Tyre and would have been an excellent place for some general like Sun to have written down their military observations from a mountaintop while watching battles. Uber should be a safe city as it will be deep in our empire when the Persian war is over and I see no threat of Persia getting anywhere near it now.

[notyoueither]

Originally posted by Shiber


It increases their chances of winning a battle by 33%. It makes a huge difference, especially when we're fighting long campaigns.
The AIs don't tend to build barracks. I usually find myself facing regular units even during the industrial age. With Sun Tzu's wonder the AI that builds it will become much more powerful.
Greece, England, Rome and Germany, the four toughest civs are likely to get it since they've already been building it for quite some time and they are the most productive civs. Would you like to face a Greek army that is 1.33 times stronger?

Relax. This is a computer AI we're fighting, not a human.

And we can build barracks that offset that advantage. It is one of the cheapest buildings going.

I usually walk through the Greeks. And especially in this situation. Remember, the dominant civs in the early going fill up their TOEs with old, outdated units. By the time Alex has Sun Tzu's he won't build very many units unless he loses some.

Honestly, with the attention that is being paid every 5 turns or so (a lot of it yours)... I'd be surprised if we could lose. There are faster ways of winning though, and Sun Tzu's ain't it.

[Shiber]

I think we should use it immediately since a civilization can't have two great leaders at once so we'll be missing opportunities for more GLs as long as we hold on to him.
However, if we see a great opportunity and we'll only have to wait 2-3 turns to get it then we should seize it and hold the GL for a few turns. Otherwise, we should use it immediately.