In case Rome demands our WM

[adaMada]

How about this.

First thing, we'll try to make a deal or two that'll pacify the Romans.

We'll also decide now what a reasonable request is and what's not.

Reasonable: (General guidelines, the President is free to overrule these if the situation warrents)
Small amounts of cash
4 or less GPT

Unreasonable:
World Map
Terratory Map
Lots of Cash
Lots of GPT

Undecided:
Dyes (we'll probably trade them to them before we do this anyway).

Any thoughts?

-- adaMada

[Aro]

Originally posted by GhengisFarb
If Rome fights us now they'll take every city up to Timeline before we can meet them. Not saying we won't take it back but it would be long and costly. I expect they've got somewhere around 20 -30 legions in the field right now.

I agree with Ghengis. We aren't prepared. Could someone say how many turns till we can settle all those cities over Uber Isle? In addition, how many turns until the AI comes to Uber Isle? Approximately, of course. Depending on it, we can sell our maps… or not.

[adaMada]

I somehow doubt the AI'll 'demand' our maps, especially if we've been nice to them -- why go to war for something so small, especially since (as far as they know) they know the entire continent?

I'd be more inclined to believe that the AI might 'demand' something else of ours, which is another good reason to trade them dyes for something -- we'd be eliminating the only valuable thing we'd have left with the exception of money, and I think we'd be able to make a larger sacrifice in that area...

History Guy, I understand your concern, but if we get into another war right now, it'd have bad affects. For one, our campeign against Persia would become troubled. We'd probably loose a few cities. I'd rather avoid that, even if it means cutting some corners I'd rather not cut.

I think I may add Greece to our list of civilizations that to accept minor demands from, just for the next few turns (where they could hurt us badly). Any thoughts on that?

-- adaMada

[Donal Graeme]

I say that if the Romans demand our World Map, then we give it to them.

No, really. It will take them a long time to get a number of settlers up to where Uber Isle is in a galley, something like 15 turns, by which time we can build settler in our larger cities and transport them over to Uber Isle. By the time they get there, the whole place will be ours. Also, the AI usually waits 20 turns to demand tribute again. This means we should have enough time to take out the Persians and move our forces to the southern border so that we can fight the Romans if need be, when we refuse their demand.

Question: Do we know if the Romans have any galleys?

[adaMada]

Donal, my bigger concern isn't the Romans, but that they'll trade it to other civs, who'll be in better positions to colonize it. We know the French have a galley floating around... and the Aztecs have the Great Lighthouse...

-- adaMada

[Shiber]

Originally posted by adaMada
if anyone is personally sure that Rome will go to war if we reject, then please post,
-- adaMada

I am. Rome is militaristic, very aggressive and does not like us one bit. They WILL declare war.
However, the good thing is that the AI almost never sells maps it just got right away. They'd rather wait a few turns, which will allow us a chance to sell our maps to all the other civs and reap all the gold. Yes, the price would be telling everyone else where Uber Isle is but I don't think we have much of a choice.
Afterwards we're gonna have to start sending settlers to Uber Isle en masse.

[Shiber]

Originally posted by adaMada
Since everyone more experienced than I seems to agree that Rome will declare war on us should we not agree to their deal, then does anyone think that a small cash 'gift' to imrpove relations might help? Would GPT stop them from declaring war?

IMHO the best way to minimize the chance that they'd attack us is to trade luxuries with them. That way they won't be able to declare war against us without breaking a trade treaty and therefore they'll be less inclined to do so.

[adaMada]

Shiber,
What about the lux. trades I proposed in your five turn tech trade thread? Do you think that'll minimize the risk?

I'm really hesitant to do a world map trade. We stand to loose a lot if the AI manages to get a city on Uber Isle -- if nothing else, it'll throw all our other cities off and mean that we'll have to go to war eventually. All things considered, I'd really rather avoid it, even if it means giving up a source of dyes for twenty turns as a gift (especially considering how many dyes we have).

-- adaMada

[Aggie]

Some observations. We have a settler ready to go to uber right now. We will have one more fairly soon. Another one from cherbough(I sp it wrong but you know the city, I'm assuming we will change the spear to settler and rush when it is a turn from 2) will give us 3 more cities on uber within a reasonable amount of time. This would make uber ours for all intents and purposes. So though I think it is very undesirable, it is not fatal if they got a map. Only country within range are persia,france,babaylon and maybe russia. Yes the aztects could get there but a culture flip would almost be inevitable. So very soon our hold on uber will be absolute. That being said I would much prefer our knowledge of uber be kept secret as long as possible. Countries can't attack whatb they can't see. yes using these settlers will keep us from building where munich was and filling in some w/nw gaps but the rewards are impressive.
Aggie

[Duddha]

We must never give in to foreign dogs. If they want war, then they'll get it.

[Ninot]

Originally posted by Duddha
We must never give in to foreign dogs. If they want war, then they'll get it.

Are you simply a war monger?

[Duddha]

Well, I am in the Hawk party.

[Ninot]

lol, ok, thanks for answering
are you representative of Hawk thoughts and beliefs?

[MrWhereItsAt]

Ninot - I think I can answer that:

He IS in the Hawk Party.

But On Topic now, I don't believe trading our map can result in anything good. Aside from the risk/amount of time that it will take for the AI to settle on Uber - what about US getting there?

We need to perform that awkward maneouvre, and if we lose a Galley we need to build another one. This takes time, time that the AI may use to get there first. I have the most awful memories of isolated islands, supposedly entirely mine, that have been landed upon by the AI mere turns after trading my WM. I did so thinking there was NO WAY they could reach it before I did. I was SOOOO wrong. And this was at Warlord. I haven't made that mistake since.

I say no to trading the WM, and a resounding yes to minor trades to prevent us having to refuse a demand at the cost of war. There is too much that could go wrong, and with us committing to the Persian war at the moment, we may need to delay Uber Island's settling to rush troops to the front.

[Donegeal]

We have the Persians on the run. I don't feel we need to "rush" too many units to the front. The "rushing" we do do should be for Uber Island.

On the topic of WM/TM demands, I fully feel that we should trade our excess Dyes to anyone who makes us look like "we have an average military". It would be nice to get Lytons or Lpt, but not needed. We must do whatever needs to be done to prevent map demands.

On another note, the AI may not know what our map reveals, but does know if it reveals more than they already know. This is why the AI will demand map in the near future.