Foreign Ministry Office -- Term III

[Togas]

This thread will be for discussions by ministry staff members and members of the public who have questions or suggestions for the Ministry.

The office door is open and there's a full dish of choco-peppermint candies on the front desk by the bell.

Ring the bell for our attention, and enjoy a treat while you wait.

--Togas

[Togas]

Staff at the Ministry

I would like to introduce the staff of the Ministry:

adaMada -- Vice Minister of Foreign Affairs. Responsible for monitoring and advising on current world affairs and foreign agreements. Feel free to PM adaMada with any new foreign incidents we may need to know about. He deals with emergency affairs and incidents. Second in Command in the Ministry.

Gepap -- Deputy Minister of Foreign Affairs. Advises and consults on matters of future policy and relations. Publishes detailed plans and updates for the Ministry.

--Togas

[Togas]

Current Foreign Policy

The following information will be updated as changes occur in foreign policy. The following is only general policy, not situation specific. Not all situations will follow these policy guidelines.

Attitude
Polite: England, Aztecs, Iriquios, Babylon, Russia, America, France.
Cautious: Rome, Greece, Germany.
Annoyed:
Hostile: Persia.

Demands
Give in: Rome, Greece.
Refuse: England, Persia, Germany, France, Aztecs, America, Russia, Babylon, Iriquois.

Right of Passage
Current: none.
Agree/Seek after: none
Agree if money is right: Russia, Iriquios, Aztecs, Babylon.
Do not agree: Greece, England, Rome, France, Germany, America, Persia.

Alliances
Current: none.
Accept: none.
Accept if money/enemy is right: England, Iriquois, Babylon, Aztecs, Russia, France.
Do not accept: Greece, Rome.

Charities
Civs we don't mind giving good deals to in tech or trade
Iriquios.

Peace Terms
Persia -- We must have Sidon and Tyre and a new technology before peace can be reached.

Other Policies
Create embassies in Abananaba Minor.

Do not trade world maps. Do not trade teritory maps once a settlement is built on Uber Isle.

Do not make trades of Tech or maps that do not earn a decent profit.
Do not agree to any RoPs, Alliances, or other Signifigant Pacts without Togas's personal approval.
All trades except resource trades must be approved by the Ministry.
Any declaration of war must be approved by both the Ministry and an official poll.

All things left unstated in turnthreads/chats are for Presidential or Public decision. All things specified must be followed unless surprise events have made the orders illogical, harmful, or inappropriate. In that situation the President should end turnthread/chat if any major decision needs to be taken and no representative from the Ministry is present to make the decision. If only a minor decision, the President may use his discretion to change the orders so that they are logical, beneficial, and appropriate.

Current as of 130 BC

[adaMada]

Foreign Affairs Informational Report

Note: I apologize for the lateness of this update; I'm covering for the Foreign Minister, so updates will be less frequent and comprehensive than usual for the immediate future.

Skip Diplomatic Issues Section (long)
Current Diplomatic Issue(s)
Skip to Newest Issues
Any items of importance that should be noted will be posted here for the public's convince, and any relevant threads linked. (NOTE: Recommendations are my own personal suggestions, and are not necessarily the viewpoint of the Foreign Ministry. Suggestions internal to the ministry may not be posted.)

1. 8/21/02; Item #001 Current
   Overview: Greece declared war on England. (390 BC)
   Links: Next Turn times and curent report: term III
   Effects: Greece and England will be temporarily nulled as threats; we must decide if we want to attack and take a "piece of the pie" after the French war is done.
   Recommendations: Public and ministers must reach a consensus on if this situation is exploitable. No recommendation for Foreign Ministry action.
   Actions Taken: None as of yet
   Results: None as of yet
2. 8/21/02; Item #002 Current
   Overview: Aztecs declared war on Greece (390 BC)
   Links: Next Turn times and curent report: term III
   Effects: Greece will probably be under a lot of pressure as it will be fighting two nations at the same time (Aztecs and England; See Item 001). Aztecs, England, and Greece become very unlikely to attack us.
   Recommendations: None until public and ministers reach consensus on any way to take advantage of the situation.
   Actions Taken: None as of yet
   Results: None as of yet
3. 8/21/02; Item #003
   Overview: Russia completed the Great Library. (390 BC) Current
   Links: Next Turn times and curent report: term III
   Effects: Will mean that Russia will never be far behind the front in techs.
   Recommendations: Cultivate relationship with Russia. If we can keep ourselves on good terms with the Russians, we can probably trade for the technology they have as soon as they get it. As it'll be semi-'old' technology, they'll probably be willing to trade, and may give us a decent price for it. War to obtain the Great Library does not seem to be a practical option, as Russia's location would make any such war difficult, to say the least.
   Actions Taken: Foreign Policy updated; follows the recommendation posted here.
   Results: None as of yet
4. 8/21/02; Item #004 Current
   Overview: Greece completed the Great Wall. (370 BC)
   Links: Next Turn times and curent report: term III
   Effects: Will make Greece stronger against military attacks, especially on its smaller towns (which would otherwise probably be easy targets). This will probably not make up for the fact that Greece is now at war with two other nations, however, so this currently has very little affect on the political landscape.
   Recommendations: None
   Actions Taken: None as of yet
   Results: None as of yet
5. 8/21/02; Item #005
   Overview: Aztecs completed the Great Lighthouse. (370 BC) Current
   Links: Next Turn times and curent report: term III
   Effects: Could strengthen the Aztec's navy slightly; will likely have little effect except allowing the Aztecs to explore a bit of sea that is currently unexplored.
   Suggested Actions: If there is any evidence of Aztec ships exploring before Navigation, acquire the Aztecs WM. Otherwise, none.
   Actions Taken: None as of yet
   Results: Foreign policy updated; now follows the recomendation posted here.
6. 8/25/02; Item #006
   Overview: We declared war on France (330 BC)
   Links: The good, the bad, and the ugly.
   Effects: We declared war on France, as we have been planning. As per the original plans, and even with the developments below, we will probably be able to keep most of the fighting on foreign soil.
   Recommendations: None
   Actions Taken: Foreign Policy Amended
   Results: None as of yet
7. 8/25/02; Item #007 Current
   Overview: Germany Declared War on Us! (290 BC)
   Links: The good, the bad, and the ugly.
   Effects: We are now engaged in a three front war. Though the military advisor says that Germany has a smaller army then ours, they have access to Iron, which will mean that their swordsmen will be, at best, even matches for our fortified Spearmen. They are considered a military threat, and should be treated as one diplomatically.
   Recommendations: None
   Actions Taken: Foreign Policy updated.
   Results: None as of yet
8. 8/25/02; Item #008 Current
   Overview: Persia Declared War on Us! (290 BC)
   Links: The good, the bad, and the ugly.
   Effects: We will now be engaged in a three front war. Currently, according to our Military Advisor, Persia's army is roughly equal to our own, though they do not have Iron. Should they get Iron while we are at war, however, they will have their Unique Unit at their disposal.
   Recommendations: None
   Actions Taken: Foreign Policy Updated
   Results: None as of yet
9. 8/21/02; Item #009 Current
   Overview: Germany signs Military Allience with Greece against the Aztecs. (270 bc)
   Links: Turn report 290-210 bc
   Effects: Means that Greece has an ally in its war; may bring Greece into the war against us, though I doubt it -- they have enough on their plate already. May stop Germany from launching any major attacks against us, and may cause Germany to declare war on England eventually.
   Recommendations: Relationship with Greece should be improved. Some deal should be made where we pay them gpt, even if it's a gift of 1 gpt per turn (though a real deal that happened to include a decent amount of gpt would be better) -- that way, they don't get the full benefit if they declare war. (Note that this is different from the Persian situation, where Persia had the benefit of the RoP and then declared war -- in this case, if Greece declares war on us, their treasury will be hurt).
   Actions Taken: None as of yet
   Results: None as of yet
10. 8/31/02; Item #010 Current
    Overview: Peace with France declared! (210 BC)
    Links: 210 BC Turnchat
    Effects: We will now only be involved in a war with Persia and Germany. Furthermore, both Persia and Germany are on the same side of our country, so we can reallocate some of our defense to that area and better deal with the threat they present.
    Recommendations: We make deals with France to A) Improve our relations (if possible), and B) lower the chance that they will redeclare war. Until the Foreign Ministry has decided that France is less of a threat, I highly recommend that extra military units be deployed along our French border, as they are likely to attack again soon should we appear vunerable.
    Actions Taken: None as of yet
    Results: None as of yet
11. 9/4/02; Item #011 Current
    Overview: Peace with Germany Declared!
    Links: 210-130 BC Turnthread
    Effects: By ending this war, we are able to devote our full attention to Persia, eliminate threat to ourselves, and make a tidy profit.
    Recommendations: None
    Actions Taken: None as of yet
    Results: None as of yet
12. 9/8/02; Item #012 New! Current
    Overview: England and Greece signed a Peace Treaty (50 BC)
    Links: Turnchat Report for 210-30 BC
    Effects: The other major war has rapidly changed focus, from England and Aztec vs Greece to Greece, Germany, and America vs the Aztecs.
    Recommendations: We should decide what the affects of the Aztecs destruction would be, and if that is a desirable solution or not. If not, we should consider technological or military aid.
    Actions Taken: None as of yet
    Results: None as of yet
13. 9/8/02; Item #013 New! Current
    Overview: America Declares War on the Aztecs! (50 BC)
    Links: Turnchat Report for 210-30 BC
    Effects: America declares war on the Aztecs through an alliance with Germany. This could be bad, as the Aztecs may take the American Land we want. This could also mean that Germany might declare war on us should we attack America in the future.
    Recommendations: Attack on America should be reevaluated. If we see it as important enough to risk war with Germany (even if risk is only slight) then we should move the attack timeline up, so that we can take the lands we want before the Aztecs do.
    Actions Taken: None as of yet
    Results: None as of yet
14. 9/12/02; Item #014
    Overview: Aztecs signed a peace treaty with Germany and Greece (10 BC)
    Links: 30 - 70 AD Turnthread
    Effects: Will put further pressure on the Americans, as the Aztecs will have that many more military units.
    Recommendations: Discussion as to if there is any threat to the Americans from the Aztecs should continue
    Actions Taken: None as of yet
    Results: None as of yet

At present, it might be important to note that the AI is out of REX phase, considering the military action.

Current Recommendations:

• Relations with the Russians improved and kept as high as possible; Russia should be used as a major tech whoring partner. Has been followed.
• If there is any evidence of Aztec ships exploring, we should acquire the Aztecs' WM. Has been followed.
• Recommend that all attempts be made to secure surplus Luxuries and Resources, which can be used in Trades.

Reference:

• Updated! For a summary of the other civs on the map and their status, you should check out Deputy Minister GePap's Analysis (current as of
• For some interesting estimates at international demographics, see The State of The Nation: Statistics, 30 BC by Reddawg. The numbers on population could be useful when determining Civilization power.
• Updated! Information on the last turn can be found here, taking us to 70 AD.

Current Discussion Threads
A list of all the Foreign Affairs related threads that are being actively posted to, and that are being read and may potentially be used as a basis for Foreign Policy. (List will probably be updated frequently to remove items not being actively posted to or that are rendered obsolete by another item on the list.) If there are any suggestions for additions to the list (or if I slip and it gets obsolete), please PM me.

• Discovering continents for fun and profit (started by Shiber)
• War Academy: American-Aztec War (started by Vice Minister adaMada)
• Poll: Do we continue war with Persia

Important Note
If anyone sees anything that they think deserves the attention of the Foreign Ministry department, please PM me, or contact me in some way.

-- adaMada --

[Togas]

Foreign Relations Press Release, 350 BC

Greece declared war on England in 390 BC and subsequently invaded. To counter this attack, England convinced the Aztecs to declare war on Greece the turn after. Two turns have gone by without any other nations joining into this war. The war will mostly take place in England, but it is possible that Greek coastal provinces will fall under Aztec attack in later years.

The Greeks built a Great Wall to assist their Hopilites in the defense of their nation. They will be a difficult foe to conquer, even for two nations.

The Ministry's Position on the War
This war is not a threat to Apolytonia and it should serve us well to stiffle the development of two of the strongest nations on the continent. Should Germany get involved too, we will reconsider our position but at this time the Ministry that we take no active role in this conflict.

This war makes it extremely unlikely that France will be able to aquire Greek aid after our invasion.

This war has not caused a change in Apolytonia Foreign Policy.

Due to our military committment to the French invasion and our weak defense, the Ministry does not recommend that we accept any offers of military alliance at this time. We are considering accepting a RoP offer if enough gold is involved. This issue is currently being discussed.

A Great Library
Russia has beaten the world in the race to create a Great Library. As a result, we will upgrade our relations with Russia to polite and attempt to cultivate a better relationship with them. This library may result in our ability to aquire low-end techs at a lower price, however, Russia will reap the rewards.

We should be prepared to prop up Babylon to counter Russia should Russia become a greater power in Abananaba Minor. Babylon remains one of our "charity" nations.

A Great Lighthouse
The international race to build The Great Library made the Aztecs and Greeks the second and third place parties. The Aztecs were stuck with only the Great Lighthouse to build. This wonder may assist their attack on Greece, but it may also increase the value of their maps, as they will be able to travel in more dangerous waters. We will seek out their improved maps to sell to the other world powers up until Uber Island is explored.

[Kickbooti]

A Modest Proposal

Estimable Sirs:

I would like to make a speculative proposal regarding our future disposition toward Greece.

Assuming we have a favorable conclusion to our French campaign (and that may be a big assumption), I believe we may want to explore expediting Greek hostilities.

I realize the military possiblility of this is a matter for the SMC, but I submit my thinking to your office for consideration and the long-term implications.

If England and the Aztecs are still in a protracted war with Greece, I think we should join the conflict against Greece. Our immediate goals should be Sparta and Argos for the long range goals of depriving Greece of domestic sources for horses and cutting off thier Easternh cities from the capital. (Depending on the outcome of these primary strikes, secondary targets such as Eritrea or Hereklia could be considered).

It is my thought that these two actions would make the Eastern cities easier to 'flip,' (or conquer at a later date), and it would prevent a horse-based military to Greece in the middle stages of the game.

This territorial loss, coupled with the grinding effect of protracted was against a coalition should reduce Greece in the political standings, along with stunting their growth and development, allowing (I hope) a hostile, but impotent foe we can deal with at leasure.

The wild cards in this plan would be German and Persia. If either were to join Greece in their war before we took action, I think this plan should be scrapped. Also the 'Uber Isle' is a variable that cannot be measured. If it is another continent, Greece could grow and expand to problematic proportions (I think the latter is unlikely, but it is possible).

Thank you for your consideration. I thank the Bananna that our nation has such gited and talented leaders in the Foreign Service Office.

Kickbooti

[UnOrthOdOx]

Geeze, I don't have NEARLY enough time to check on this page. Amazing job guys.

[Togas]

Foreign Affairs Report, 290 BC

Upon the fall of Paris and Orleans, France offered great sums of money to the Germans and Persians to come to their aid. Both nations accepted the bribes. We are now at war with three nations, resulting in a massive war that completely surrounds our nation.

German and Persian ambassadors refuse to speak to us in the wake of this sudden and inexcusable declaration of war. Persia has broken their treaty with us, and we will not forget this treachery.

None of our enemies are prepared for war and none of them have a military the size and strength of ours. Furthermore, Persia is in anarchy, without Iron, and their core cities are far from the eventual front.

Our Think Tank has assessed the threat of Germany and is currently developing tactics to counter their more impending threat.

The Ministry has evaluated the many options to bring other nations into this war and after a thorough review of all the options, the Ministry has decided AGAINST inviting other nations into our conflict.

We have the strength and guile to defend our nation on our own, and the cost of bringing in an ally is not worth it at this time. Let Apolytonia show it's greatness to the world! We will rise forth from this great war a stronger and larger state, showing our neighbors that treachery and greed do not go unpunished!

The Ministry gives it's full faith and support in our War Department and will continue to discuss options for peace with France, Germany, and Persia as soon as their ambassadors open communications with us again.

If any offers or deals can be made, we will make it known to the nation.

Our Foreign Policy has been updated. Questions about policy changes or the position of the Ministry may be submitted by PM or by post to this thread.

--Togas

[Togas]

A Matter of Grave Concern, 290 BC

It is becoming increasingly more difficult to make trade deals with the other civilizations, despite our every effort to maintain the best possible diplomatic status.

Republic and Monotheism are known by most of the civilizations we have contact with. The Aztecs, Romans, Greeks, Russians, Babylonians, Germans, and Persians all have this knowledge. That just leaves us, America, France, and the Iroquois. One would expect that a technology could be aquired at a reasonable price, since so many of the other nations already have it.

That is not the case.

I have offered 446 Gold, WM, and 25 GPT to all of the above nations for any of their techs and none have accepted. For curiosity's sake I raised my offer to 100 GPT and still it wasn't accepted.

I explored the cost of stealing technology from Greece and England (our embassies closed in Germany and Persia due to the current war). The cost of trying to Immediately take tech from Greece was 904 Lytons. The cost for England was 896.

I am deeply concerned that we have passed the era of tech trading and we may now be forced to extort tech in the very near future. Stealing tech is nearly impossible due to the cost. If we can aquire a number of valuable resources and luxuries we could trade that for tech, but that possibility is still years away as we have no trade network established.

Recommendations: We need to win technology out of the current war. We need to seize more valuable resources and luxuries. We need to build a harbor to open trade routes with which to trade them. We need a GA soon to get our own libraries built to allow us the ability to research our own tech.

One more point, more Embassies are needed. I cannot discuss the possibility of an alliance with half of the nations on our continent, nor can we explore the possibility of stealing technology. Once this war is over we need to invest in at least one embassy per turnthread.

--Togas

[MrWhereItsAt]

Basically it sounds like the Foreign Office champions war.

Well, we do need a united Government to be successful...

A pity France and America are two of the only four nations that don't have those techs - we would get techs off them first. However, despite its distance, it sounds like Persia could be a likely target in this respect, and Germany, despite their strength, could be persuaded if we take that city near us (forget its name...)

/me off now to download and look at the save, FINALLY!

[GePap]

I completely agree with our venerated Foreign Minister:

It is of great importance for our Government as a whole to improve the diplomatic infrastructure and approve the use of funds to create new embassies. Embassies with the waring parties and major neutrals, such as with England, the Aztecs, and Rome, should have top priority. Embassies with the minor civs. of Abananaba Minor can wait for our treasury to grow.

I am also posting to state that from August 29 to September 9, I will be unable to update my foreign civs report as I will be travelling and away from the game. I will try to update the report as soon as I return and download the save. I would also appreciate it if anyone might want to take it upon themselves to create a similar report as the war develops, since it is at this time that such reporting is key.

[Proserpine]

Re: A Matter of Grave Concern, 290 BC

Originally posted by Togas
It is becoming increasingly more difficult to make trade deals with the other civilizations, despite our every effort to maintain the best possible diplomatic status.

Republic and Monotheism are known by most of the civilizations we have contact with. The Aztecs, Romans, Greeks, Russians, Babylonians, Germans, and Persians all have this knowledge. That just leaves us, America, France, and the Iroquois. One would expect that a technology could be aquired at a reasonable price, since so many of the other nations already have it.

. . .

Recommendations: We need to win technology out of the current war. We need to seize more valuable resources and luxuries. We need to build a harbor to open trade routes with which to trade them. We need a GA soon to get our own libraries built to allow us the ability to research our own tech.

--Togas

Nice analysis. Hopefully we will get at least 2 techs when we beat the Germans/Persians.

[Togas]

Foreign Affairs Report, 210 BC

In 270 BC the Greeks paid the Germans to attack the Aztecs, giving our enemy a two front war. The possibility to side with the Aztecs against the Germans was not considered due to the fact that our agreed upon goal with Germany is to quickly end the war.

If our goals with Germany change, please contact the Ministry office at once. It may be in our interest to open and embassy with the Aztecs and discuss an alliance.

Currently Germany and Persia will not speak to our ambassadors, so peace is not an option, but we hold firm to the belief that they will soon capitulate. The goal of the Ministry will be to negotiate a quick peace with our unexpected enemies.

France is now talking peace after the taking of Marseille. However, their offer is peace and, perhaps, a city. They refuse to give us Feudalism without emptying our bank and, perhaps, giving them permission to move their forces back into Il de Rose to "protect Rheims and Chartres." All in all, the best deal negotiated thus far is Peace, Feudalism, WM, RoP, and we pay them 256 Lytons. This is not a reasonable offer.

The Ministry will continue to seek out other routes to purchase the technology and will press for peace in coming years -- So long as our Military can support a continued war. If war cannot be supported any further, we will negotiate the best possible peace and end our French conquest with three excellent cities, wines, and a weakened France.

--Togas

[Togas]

Foreign Affairs Report, 210 BC, Part II

The results of a miserable turnchat that did not finish out the year 210 BC are as follows.

We immediately negotiated peace with France for two worthless cities: Rouen and Cherborg.

We then paid France all of our gold and 9gpt for Feudalism.

We then traded Feudalism and other techs to several nations (but not the Aztecs) for Monarchy, Republic, Monotheism, and all of our gold back from France, plus 1gpt.

We will be paying France 8gpt for the next 20 turns.

All of the above was done in defiance to the written Ministry orders posted on the TurnChat/thread orders for 210 BC.

The Ministry has been embarassed by this blatant usurping of authority. Ministry orders included a call for peace and a techtrading scheme that would have netted us the same techs, but differed in the following ways:
1) Aztecs trade us Monarchy and WM for Feudalism. This gives them a fighting chance against Germany and the Greeks and allows us to ...
2) Get 106g from Rome for Feudalism, the full amount of their treasury, instead of only getting 54 because they swapped techs with us. We would earn an additional 52g profit.
3) No GPT deal with France that will end up costing us 160g.
4) No worthless cities that we're going to have to raise or give away.
5) We'd have an embassy in Tenochtitian.

The Ministry is now taking step to insure that the decisions made by the Foreign Minister are not ever disregarded again. We at the Ministry go to great pains to insure that the most up-to-date information is given to the public and that the best possible orders are prepared in advance for Turnchat, and we are extremely discouraged to see things turn out the way they did.

--Togas

[Panag]

hi ,

, sounds good

are there any other options

Togas > take a banana and dont think about that embarrasing moment again

have a nice day