UnOfficial poll: Second Executive Crew

[Apocalypse]

This is needed. Yes turnchats will probably no longer be an option in the future, but they are right now. Give more people a chance to experience them while there is still time.

[Kuciwalker]

NO

This second crew would have to be elected, and if you think 9 elections at a once are hectic, think what 18 would be like *gulp*.

[kring]

Yes.

The second group of elections could be mid term; in other words; if group one was elected now; then group two would be elected halfway between now and group one's next election cycle.

I am one of those who would love to be in turn chats, but work interferes with that.

[Jon Shafer]

Mwia, you realize that a non-NA turnchat would be about 2 or 3 hours earlier, right? Do you know what that means? Do you really want to get up at 5am?

I say no for the reasons Ralph stated.

[kring]

As it stands now, up to 2/3 of the citizens are unable to attend turnchats without either skipping school or work. That is too large a majority to not consider doing something different. At the same time, 1/3 is also too large a minority to not allow participation at reasonable hours.

The alternative I mentioned elsewhere, is to have several turnchats, but have them available at differents times on different days. The major problem there would be having govt. representation during the times that were out of sync with the different officials.

[GePap]

If we allow the president to play a few turns on his/her own, whats the point of Ministers? First, I would ask how the fine phoeneticans have done it, since they have gotten well inot the region of massive cities and empires, so for us to ignore the experience of others would simply be a case to stupid stubborness. Second, once we seent ehir experience, see if we think their system is viable for us or if we want to either igonore it completely or just make a few modifications. I like turnchats but I would not be opposed to a different systm, as long as that system allowed as much imput (or more) than the old, not less.

[kring]

I agree on having a system with more input. I also wouldn't want the President to play without the Ministers present; at the same time, to limit the number of citizens by having a turn chat when almost 2/3 can't make it for school or work is unfair to us.

I would like to find out how CFC does this also; it shows today at:

All times are 23:59 GMT (6:59pm EDT).

Maybe, Chieftess can give us feedback on how they do it? Another thing to find out would be the time zones that CFC DG citizens occupy %age wise.

[Harovan]

Originally posted by GePap
If we allow the president to play a few turns on his/her own, whats the point of Ministers?

Dang, you are right. What's the point of all this demogame thing, if everyone could easily play his own game.

[GePap]

Originally posted by Sir Ralph


Dang, you are right. What's the point of all this demogame thing, if everyone could easily play his own game.

I can't articuarly judge if this is sarcasm or not, but I do have a question. In your post you stated that the president would play unitl he needed instructions, or if something unexpected happened. Currently the Prez can't do many things without instructions. If the president were to play various turns on his own, we are assuming that a. Either the ministers have left general and or specific instructions on everything the president should do or b. the president gets to move any way he sees fit until something big happens.

Now, b. give the president too much power and would hardly be a real dem game.
Option a. is rife with possible complications, plus I doubt that ministers would be able to really give instrcutions for what to do in lets say, 6 turns away, especially not knowing the orders of other ministers (the city planner and SMC would have to agree on city production and so forth).

NOw, I didn't vote on the poll, but I don't think it is a very good idea, and I agree that turnchats wil become a real hastle- the porblem is that our gov. is not structured with this reality in mind at all- any mjor change in how we play the turns may very well call for a fundamental change in how the governmewnt is structured. I do think we should look at the phoenetican system, since they have already moved beyond this point and I assume have dealt with the problem, and with less people than us at that.

[MrWhereItsAt]

C'mon people, give this a chance. Maybe it won't work because we can't find times that suit everyone, maybe there won't be enough ppl to justify another turnchat, but how do you know these things? If you vote against this, assuming that it just can't be done, then OF COURSE it won't be done.

At least give it a chance - if it fails for one of the reaons that are posted above, start spamming my posts with "I told you so" or something. I don't care. Just give it a chance and it may work. If it does work, then there are a few more happy citizens, and a few more included in this rather crucial part of the game. If it fails at least we tried, and we can't complain any more - if something doesn't work we should all understand that, but if it is prevented from even being attempted, what does that say? It starts to look as if the status quo is fine with those who vote "NO", and those who can't participate the way they want to are being denied a chance.

Now what kind of co-operative game is that?

[Harovan]

MWIA: It won't work. Not at all. It will be sheer chaos and confusion.

GePaP: Yes, it was sarcasm. And if you reread my post carefully, you find the answers to most of your questions yourself. Once more:

The president will play the game in a time that suits him, until one of the following happens:

1. He needs new instructions from the ministers.
2. He used up his turn allowance (to be discussed, I'd suggest 5 or 6).
3. Something unforeseen happens (declaration of war, discovery of a new continent, or similar).

Instructions are made by the ministers, after they met their decisions and made their polls. The current system, and the system proposed by MWIA is against the constitution, because the turnchats will be made every 3rd day, and official polls have a minimum to be 3 days open. So how should this work? This is probably why we have seen not so many minister polls in the close past.

[MrWhereItsAt]

Well, we needn't carry out all the orders deriving from polls in a single chat. We have some pretty long term plans being developed anyway, ones that will take as much as 20 or so turns. An acceptance of such a plan effectively decides what will happen in these turns, barring unforeseen circumstances, few of which we have seen in the game to date.

Sir Ralph as ever has an argument, and he tends to know exactly what he is doing, so maybe this will cause more problems than it solves, but we don't know until we try. I ask everyone to think about both sides and decide which is better - to believe from the sometimes chaotic workings of the game to date that further turnchats will just cause us more problems and avoid such an outcome, or to give it a try( or at least serious thought), in the hope that we can actually do this. Personally I hope it will be decided that we at least try, for the sake of allowing more ppl to contribute.

[Harovan]

Well, not the argument is my purpose, but to find something applicable on the long run. You system may work, but I have my doubts. And even if it works, it won't be applicable for more than 1 term. May be even not that long. And don't think things will be so easy. It's already hard to manage one crew.

Another point is, even your system is not very just. We'd make 1 crew for Americans, 1 for Euros and where are you and Sn00py represented? Both seem not very good to fit. The system proposed by NYE and me makes absolutely no difference of where the president or ministers live.

[DAVOUT]

Originally posted by MrWhereItsAt


for the sake of allowing more ppl to contribute.

Just to remind that the vast majority of the people can neither attend the turnchats, nor download the game. And they would be really happy to have assess permanently to an updated set of maps.

[Kuciwalker]

The vast majority of people don't even have Civ3, or an internet connection, maybe even a computer! For heaven's sake, people, this will be chaos. FYI, chaos is bad.