OFFICIAL Petition for the Mods re Presidential Election

[notyoueither]

Proposal. The mods (MarkG) should post the list of voters in the most recent presidential election. We feel it would be helpful to see the list of Apolyton users who voted.

The list should not show votes cast. Nobody has proposed that revealing the actual votes would be helpful at this point. In fact it could undermine President Ninot and possibly make things worse.

Yes means that we wish MarkG to reveal the voter list while maintaining the secret ballot.

No means that we do not wish MarkG to reveal any information that we do not already know (no list at all should be posted).

This official poll will run 4 days (96 hours from this post).

This poll is labeled as official as it is intended to be the official will of the people of Apolytonia. Of course, what is official for us does not oblige any mod (or god) to do anything. We are merely expressing our will.

Discussion of the issues surrounding the presidential election may be found here:

http://apolyton.net/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=55924

and in many other places.

Important: It would be desirable for each voter to state their vote in this poll as a post in this thread as well as a selection in the check boxes. Registered citizens are not yet explicitly accorded special voting status in the constitution. However, it would be good to know who is making these decisions.

[MrWhereItsAt]

nye has my support. Publish that voter list!

[kring]

One of the nice things about a democracy, at least a true one, is the secret ballot.

To request people to state their vote goes against a secret ballot concept.

Also, to release the voter list, regardless of whether or not you list how people voted also goes against a secret ballot.

I don't think your intent is to scare people from voting, but that will be the result. How many people currently don't vote due to the large number of polls? Esp. when some of them are re repeat polls?

I would much rather see effort go into posting an amendment (sorry if there is one and I missed it) to limit voting to only citizens or all members of ACS if that be the will of the masses, and having the mods ensure that noncitizen votes are deleted if the first option wins. Also, how long does a citizen have to be a citizen before they can vote in polls if the first option wins?

What would the purpose of such revealing do? I could see if the issue of the Presidency was in doubt (aside from one dissenter last time I looked) bringing this issue up.

[Nubclear]

Originally posted by kring
One of the nice things about a democracy, at least a true one, is the secret ballot.

To request people to state their vote goes against a secret ballot concept.

Also, to release the voter list, regardless of whether or not you list how people voted also goes against a secret ballot.

I don't think your intent is to scare people from voting, but that will be the result. How many people currently don't vote due to the large number of polls? Esp. when some of them are re repeat polls?

I would much rather see effort go into posting an amendment (sorry if there is one and I missed it) to limit voting to only citizens or all members of ACS if that be the will of the masses, and having the mods ensure that noncitizen votes are deleted if the first option wins. Also, how long does a citizen have to be a citizen before they can vote in polls if the first option wins?

What would the purpose of such revealing do? I could see if the issue of the Presidency was in doubt (aside from one dissenter last time I looked) bringing this issue up.

Although initially I supported this, I have to agree with kring. What purpose would come of it?

[Vlad Antlerkov]

I support NYE. We cannot afford for this election to have been tainted by nonmembers. If we don't do this, we may see some damage come to the office of the presidency.

I don't doubt that Ninot will be a great president, but I do have a sliver of doubt that he is a legitimate president. We need to put this election beyond all reasonable doubt.

(BTW-- can the admins really do that?)

[DAVOUT]

Originally posted by kring


Also, to release the voter list, regardless of whether or not you list how people voted also goes against a secret ballot.

I am afraid this is not true ; I know at least one democracy where the list of all voters, indicating whether they have voted or no, can be consulted by anybody after the vote. This is required for further controls by any individual or political party interested.

[theViking]

Go ahead. Show the list of voters. (BTW In Australia voting is Compulsory).

[disorganizer]

once again, the abstain is missing ;-)

[Torkkeli]

I have nothing against it... I'm sure you see me voting

[GodKing]

I don't care at this point. I don't think it will do us any good to know, as a public.

The only thing I would suggest is to give Ninot the list of the names of persons who are not registered, so that he may PM them and ask them to join.

I myself would be happy to tell who I voted for, but I strongly disagree with forcing anybody to do so.

[Spiffor]

I hesitated at this one.
On the one hand, we hurt secret ballot (we won't only know who voted, but who people voted for), and we reopen the presidential Pandora Box we had so many problems to close.

But on the other hand, I was convinced by Vlad : we must get rid of all doubts.

[Jon Shafer]

Why not.

We could find out how many people really were citizens, and the extent of the problem.

The only thing revealed would be who voted, not what they voted. So why not?

[Ninot]

What would happen if the new and improved vote results went Trips way? Would he take his job back?

What if he didnt want to come back if it should come to that? Am I to be impeached?

I voted no, but only because i figure there has been enough official controversy to this election already.

[Spiffor]

Originally posted by MarkG
out of 127 voters, 10 registered after the start of the poll. from that, no traces of DL were found, except from one account linked to one candidate but we currently think it's a friend or something like that. no IP match was found

what should be more disturbing is that only 95 of the voters have signed-up on official join thread

eitherway, there are no signs of someone fixing the vote. i'm now looking into a system connecting the democracy games registration process with voting

If we are to know how many unregistered people voted, we already know that. I thought you wanted to ask Markos who people voted for. It's dirty, but it's the only way to get rid of all doubts.

[Epistax]

I voted yes, because it would set a precedent in the future for checking a hotly debated election. This particular election is over. Even if it turned out 50 of Ninot's votes were from random people (I am sure this is not true), we wouldn't change anything.

This does nothing to infringe of secret ballots- we won't know who you voted for. Most of the regulars state quite plainly when they voted, and now some of them don't want people to know? So why not?

It cannot change this election, it might save a future election, and no privacy is being lost.