Tweet
Prior to embarking on my sea journey to the land between the mountains and the jungle, I got wind of this discussion from one of the messengers sent to reach the warrior group and I had to send this dispatch with haste....Please see here:
Ethics
Several members, including Sir Ralph and Mr. notyoueither, etched out an elaborate plan--which was quite excellent work and very thoughtful. But it addressed only one option, and that is...war with France (or perhaps America), but only an all-out first-strike war. All other goals of Apolyton are discarded and only war and carrying out that war are considered.
Why is only one option looked at? Because many people believe that we have no other options and do not think outside the box. Several intelligent responses have been made here in the thread listed above that indicate, yes we should think of more than just this as a game and we should think about acting ethically and morally and challenge ourselves beyond basic animal instinct.
This is excellent thinking, so now we must translate this type of thought into a legitimate counter proposal to the current, rather unimaginatively-named, Case: Pink. Those of you who have found the thread listed above inspiring, now must rise to the occasion and test yourselves, are you up to the task of standing up right now and being counted? Is there another alternative to the current war stance? Speak now or forever hold your tongues!
So is there an alternative?
Of course there is.
First, some flaws in their plan,
1. It assumes we only have 50% losses of archers, based I assume on attack strength equal to defense strength. But it does not consider the defensive advantage of being in a village you own that our opponent will have. Or any terrain advantages they will have. Then is the percent, greater than 50%...and What if we lose all our archers at once? There is no real contingency plan
2. We are already behind in scientific and cultural achievement, what is going to help us keep the citizens of any conquered territory from overthrowing us and rejoining their original civilization? Our garrison? Do we not risk losing the garrison then as they see how much better the citizens they guard had their lives prior to becoming part of Apolytonia?
3. We are already behind in science and culture, how will we make it up? We have very little gold and no income right now, and this is while we have science investment low....we have trouble financially, scientifically, culturally...why, because we have put all the eggs in one basket (now we must hope the basket is not knocked from our hands by the French or Americans).
What if we did this....
1. Give up this idea of archer, archer, archer, etc. and concentrate on worker/settler, spearman and temples. Then libraries, harbors, settlers, and swordsman, at the right time. Some chariots when we can get them, too. I do not propose, no offensive military at all, we need to defend ourselves, which may require some counterassaults, not just just defensive units.
2. Change science to the long term goal of Map Making, in effect we are on an island, water on two sides, and France and America on the other two. We can explore for other land masses and/or speed settlers to areas south and west of the mountains or north east of the jungle.
3. We should not pop rush the temples as suggested by Sir Ralph, or pop rush anything for that matter. We need citizens to work the lands or to create settlers and workers.
4. The workers must continue to clear jungle near Banana HQ (I hate this name, from now on I call it Banana Harbor), and we should irrigate and build roads in the cleared areas for our citizens of Banana Harbor to work. Banana Harbor can then look forward to increased population growth, which means more workers and settlers. We should continue this on any new village established in the jungle.
4a. Roads should also continue to be worked, for the purpose of speeding settlers to the "front".
5. All settlers should be placed strategically as close as possible to the borders of America and France to stop their movement southward and eastward respectively. We should also explore the area between France and America, perhaps there is a home for some of our settlers there, too. Also west of the jungle appears to be a better bet for expansion than north of it. If we have settlers on the move to that area of flatland between the mountains and the jungle, then we can look to leap frog from there to the mountain area, or further west.
Go West Young Man! Let us settle faster than our counterparts, before they know what has hit them!
6. We continue to work on our culture, and with our settlers close in to France and America, we should be able to, hopefully, persuade their people that our way is better and then will happily join us.
This is a start, (I'm working on limited knowledge, having not seen the Save Game itself, yet). It is meant as a potential option for you to think about in light of this thread.
Why not challenge ourselves to be better than any other civilization, or the AI. Is this not an opportunity to use our collective knowledge to play more than just the run of the mill game, to be more than just one of the masses, to win on the higher ground. Lets face it anyone can win by being militaristic, using slavery, using pop rush, bombarding, are you up to the challenge of not using them?! No more lame excuses, i.e. "we must survive first", "all civilizations have a dark past", "its just a game", etc.
This is your call to action Apolytonia! "Don't say that later will be better! " Can we make now better, is the question. Yes! Yes! Yes!!!
I stand ready to end my hide and seek with the Imperial Guard and return to join you in building something that will last, something that we can hold our heads high about, something that will not embarass our ancestors! (this is not a pitch for a minister position, I do not have aspirations any longer)
What say ye Apolytonia?!
Finally, fairwell eewolf, lets see if your thoughts have lead to something good.
I remain,
jdjdjd
Ethics
Several members, including Sir Ralph and Mr. notyoueither, etched out an elaborate plan--which was quite excellent work and very thoughtful. But it addressed only one option, and that is...war with France (or perhaps America), but only an all-out first-strike war. All other goals of Apolyton are discarded and only war and carrying out that war are considered.
Why is only one option looked at? Because many people believe that we have no other options and do not think outside the box. Several intelligent responses have been made here in the thread listed above that indicate, yes we should think of more than just this as a game and we should think about acting ethically and morally and challenge ourselves beyond basic animal instinct.
This is excellent thinking, so now we must translate this type of thought into a legitimate counter proposal to the current, rather unimaginatively-named, Case: Pink. Those of you who have found the thread listed above inspiring, now must rise to the occasion and test yourselves, are you up to the task of standing up right now and being counted? Is there another alternative to the current war stance? Speak now or forever hold your tongues!
So is there an alternative?
Of course there is.
First, some flaws in their plan,
1. It assumes we only have 50% losses of archers, based I assume on attack strength equal to defense strength. But it does not consider the defensive advantage of being in a village you own that our opponent will have. Or any terrain advantages they will have. Then is the percent, greater than 50%...and What if we lose all our archers at once? There is no real contingency plan
2. We are already behind in scientific and cultural achievement, what is going to help us keep the citizens of any conquered territory from overthrowing us and rejoining their original civilization? Our garrison? Do we not risk losing the garrison then as they see how much better the citizens they guard had their lives prior to becoming part of Apolytonia?
3. We are already behind in science and culture, how will we make it up? We have very little gold and no income right now, and this is while we have science investment low....we have trouble financially, scientifically, culturally...why, because we have put all the eggs in one basket (now we must hope the basket is not knocked from our hands by the French or Americans).
What if we did this....
1. Give up this idea of archer, archer, archer, etc. and concentrate on worker/settler, spearman and temples. Then libraries, harbors, settlers, and swordsman, at the right time. Some chariots when we can get them, too. I do not propose, no offensive military at all, we need to defend ourselves, which may require some counterassaults, not just just defensive units.
2. Change science to the long term goal of Map Making, in effect we are on an island, water on two sides, and France and America on the other two. We can explore for other land masses and/or speed settlers to areas south and west of the mountains or north east of the jungle.
3. We should not pop rush the temples as suggested by Sir Ralph, or pop rush anything for that matter. We need citizens to work the lands or to create settlers and workers.
4. The workers must continue to clear jungle near Banana HQ (I hate this name, from now on I call it Banana Harbor), and we should irrigate and build roads in the cleared areas for our citizens of Banana Harbor to work. Banana Harbor can then look forward to increased population growth, which means more workers and settlers. We should continue this on any new village established in the jungle.
4a. Roads should also continue to be worked, for the purpose of speeding settlers to the "front".
5. All settlers should be placed strategically as close as possible to the borders of America and France to stop their movement southward and eastward respectively. We should also explore the area between France and America, perhaps there is a home for some of our settlers there, too. Also west of the jungle appears to be a better bet for expansion than north of it. If we have settlers on the move to that area of flatland between the mountains and the jungle, then we can look to leap frog from there to the mountain area, or further west.
Go West Young Man! Let us settle faster than our counterparts, before they know what has hit them!
6. We continue to work on our culture, and with our settlers close in to France and America, we should be able to, hopefully, persuade their people that our way is better and then will happily join us.
This is a start, (I'm working on limited knowledge, having not seen the Save Game itself, yet). It is meant as a potential option for you to think about in light of this thread.
Why not challenge ourselves to be better than any other civilization, or the AI. Is this not an opportunity to use our collective knowledge to play more than just the run of the mill game, to be more than just one of the masses, to win on the higher ground. Lets face it anyone can win by being militaristic, using slavery, using pop rush, bombarding, are you up to the challenge of not using them?! No more lame excuses, i.e. "we must survive first", "all civilizations have a dark past", "its just a game", etc.
This is your call to action Apolytonia! "Don't say that later will be better! " Can we make now better, is the question. Yes! Yes! Yes!!!
I stand ready to end my hide and seek with the Imperial Guard and return to join you in building something that will last, something that we can hold our heads high about, something that will not embarass our ancestors! (this is not a pitch for a minister position, I do not have aspirations any longer)
What say ye Apolytonia?!
Finally, fairwell eewolf, lets see if your thoughts have lead to something good.
I remain,
jdjdjd
Comment