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**Harovan** · June 21, 2002, 11:33

Originally posted by Timeline
Sir Ralph, that "useless city" could be our only hope for getting Iron.

You have a point, undoubtly, and it could even build the iron works later, as any jungle tile could have coal. But that is may be too late. Have you ever heard about the strategy basics, oscillating wars and rapid early expansion? This depends on productive cities now and not 5000 years later. The decisions to waste the godsent early settler for a jungle city, and to waste a pop point for a second worker instead to preserve it for a second settler can hardly be excused by a later good city site. You could secure this place with the 5th or 10th settler, but not the 2nd.

**playshogi** · June 21, 2002, 11:34

Clearing the jungle diagonally is important because Paris could be due north and not off to the side where we just happened to find the warrior. The fact that you are calling for War Chariots makes me doubt your effectiveness as war minister. Archers are the way to go, since they have the same attack value, don't require roads, don't trigger a golden age and warrior code is cheaper to research (vs. the wheel). Can you please explain your preference for War Chariots vs. Archers?

**Harovan** · June 21, 2002, 11:38

Uber, we still have the option to build war chariots, when we get the tech and horses and have a road. To build barracks and archers now does not exclude to build WCs later.

**UnOrthOdOx** · June 21, 2002, 11:42

While archers appear to be the cheaper unit at the moment, I believe they will become much more expensive in the long run. Archers, while having the same attack/defend, also lack the additional movement. This may appear weak at first, but that extra move also gives them a chance to RETREAT. Therfore, fewer losses will be incured by the Chariots. Thereby making up the short term loss in value.

Also, later they can be upgraded to a knight. Where the Archer to the longbow.

**Inverse Icarus** · June 21, 2002, 11:52

Originally posted by UnOrthOdOx
While archers appear to be the cheaper unit at the moment, I believe they will become much more expensive in the long run. Archers, while having the same attack/defend, also lack the additional movement. This may appear weak at first, but that extra move also gives them a chance to RETREAT. Therfore, fewer losses will be incured by the Chariots. Thereby making up the short term loss in value.

Also, later they can be upgraded to a knight. Where the Archer to the longbow.

i concur, but apparently the majority doesn't agree with the chariot idea for right now, so i will conceed and develop a plan with archers. i'm sure Sir Ralph doesn't mind contributing

and Sir Ralph, you yourself said if we tried to use the war chariots ASAP (ala my jungle clearing plan) we would end up facing Pikemen. if we go through with the archer plan, we wont see war chariots until the enemy has musketeers.

**UnOrthOdOx** · June 21, 2002, 12:13

It is important for a general to be calm and remote, upright and disciplined, and be able to mystify his men's eyes and ears, keeping them ignorant.

He changes his methods and plans, keeping them from knowing.

He changes his campsites and takes circuitous routes, keeping them from anticipating.

The day the general leads his troops into battle, it is like climbing up high and throwing away the ladder.

-from Sun-Tzu's The Art of War

**Panag** · June 21, 2002, 12:38

hi ,

maybe we should have a vote on what to do , ...

so many ideas , .... it can get complicated , ...

have a nice day

**Inverse Icarus** · June 21, 2002, 14:41

Originally posted by Timeline
Sir Ralph, that "useless city" could be our only hope for getting Iron.

another large "could"

and about the iron works, we're a little far from that arent we?

if people start discussing that now, i'll be planning my ICBM strategies in a few turns.

**Spiffor** · June 21, 2002, 14:43

Question : what use is producing a barracks currently, rather than producing settlers like crazy ?

**Panag** · June 21, 2002, 14:52

Originally posted by Spiffor
Question : what use is producing a barracks currently, rather than producing settlers like crazy ?

hi ,

one , to get veteran units , ...

two , to get injured soldiers some form of medical treatment , ...

three , it increases the change that the gods could bless us with the birth of a great leader , ....

have a nice day

**Kuciwalker** · June 21, 2002, 15:07

We should go with the Archer strategy. We can't go around not attacking the French. Uber would go insane, or at least more so than he is already

**Inverse Icarus** · June 21, 2002, 15:08

Originally posted by Spiffor
Question : what use is producing a barracks currently, rather than producing settlers like crazy ?

:

oints out this attitude to sir ralph::

what do you propose we settle, the jungle?

we're playing emperor. we have a one city (and a crappy city mind you) edge on the first AI we met, but you know in the next 10 turns they'll have 3 or 4 cities... it's how they play on emperor.

again we're back to those who want to sit in the jungle and those who want to break free.

it's going to be impossible to break free wthout taking out a civ on the border of the jungle. not only do they cheat to grow fatser, but their conditions are much better anyway.

they wont just grow the usual emperor way, they'll grow even faster in comparison to our jungle ridden nation.

war is inevitable, and if i am to fight with archers, barracks are a must.

**Panag** · June 21, 2002, 15:10

Originally posted by skywalker
We should go with the Archer strategy. We can't go around not attacking the French. Uber would go insane, or at least more so than he is already

hi ,

he shall get insane when he founds out that he has no barracks , and no army , and when he gets beaten in the field by Joanne , .... then the poor guy shall start to get the symptoms of jungle fever , ......

have a nice day

**Inverse Icarus** · June 21, 2002, 15:14

Originally posted by panag

hi ,

he shall get insane when he founds out that he has no barracks , and no army , and when he gets beaten in the field by Joanne , .... then the poor guy shall start to get the symptoms of jungle fever , ......

have a nice day

exactly.

**Kingof the Apes** · June 21, 2002, 15:57

Before a war with the French we should explore a little farther North with a warrior. We might find some good land, and maybe another civ or another route to the French. This way we would be a little better prepared for a war with some decent cities and possibly chariots.

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