A new civilization from the bottom of the world.

[Wernazuma III]

Well, the main reason was obviously that beside the fact that the US were already a quite strong nation, the Spanish were far from being militarically important plus the US had much easier supplies. The events of the Independance Wars did not contribute anymore to Spain's military strength at that time.

[Centauri18]

FIrst of all, this is not prejudiced commentary. I am just going with what I know from studying history and recent events.
Spain lost pretty much all its colonies due to revolutions. Spain was so powerful because of its colonies. Spain is pretty small on the mapo, like England, and those two nations were colonial powers. Once they lost their colonies, they were just small, albeit very industrialized countries. Sure, England holds a lot of economic power, and English is in many ways the lingua franca of economics these days. And the former Spanish colonies have fallen into disarray these days. Mexico is dealing with a massive population exodus, encouraged by its president, to say nothing of the drug cartels. Much like Columbia.
I don't know much about most of the other SOuth American nations, but things are not the best in most of them.

[Chilean Presidentâ„¢]

I agree with your analysis Centauri. Spain was a world power, maybe they didn't have the strenght of nations like the UK, France or the US, but they were a world power. The independence wars in America (again, the continent) debilitate the power of the spanish empire.

I also agree with your analysis of the former american colonies. But, as I said in the first page of this thread, I'm really pride to say that Chile has become an "island" of developement and economic strenght of the region. Sure we also have problems but their are small comparing with our neighbors. The unemployment of the S.A. contries are 20 or 30%, Chile is only 7%. We just sign a free trade agreement with the US, EU and South Korea, and right now we're negotiating a FTA with Japan and China. Our levels of political transparency and lack of corruption are the best of latinamerica (we even beat the US in transparency ). But also Uruguay is a pretty consolided nation, called "the south american Switzerland". But the situation of the rest of the countries is really bad, too many poor people, corrupt governments, weak economies, etc. I hope that Chile's neighbors have a better future to come.

[Chilean Presidentâ„¢]

Edit: it was "proud" not "pride"

[South killer]

Sorry, but I don't think chile should be included, as other latinoamerican countries are more important. Although Argentina (my country) is in a very big crisis I think it's important economycally (At one time it was the 10th economy in the world), geographycaly and historically (Withouth San MartÃÂn, chile, argentina and I think peru wouldn't even exist). I think 2 latioamerican civs should be included:
1-Mexico/Argentina -one of the 2- (I think they are the most important spanish-speaking countries in latin america)
2- Brazil

IGUAL LATINOAMERICA TIENE QUE ESTAR UNIDA ANTE LOS IMPERIALISTAS DEL NORTE-

[XarXo]

Except for Quechuas, Mayas and Aztecs, I only see Paraguay as the best candidate for a south american civ. And just because they are the only native country the continent (is the Guaranà state).

Perú only conserve the name, probably Bolivia will reach the category of real state before this just becase it accepted the Quechua/Aymara reclamations, Perú started an acceptation of the reality of his bilingual situation but is very far. Only Ecuador stays in a position of inmobilism. Probably in a few decades we can see again the Tauantisuyu (a democratic version of it, of course!).

Maya culture is very far from regain its status, and aztec/nahuatl is just in a compass waiting what happens with subcomandante Marcos & cia.

Time is what need the people in this continent, just the one that we needed.

[Az]

Spain was a developed nation at that moment, but after the war with so many countries in South America, they didn't have the strenght to fight a war against a consolided new nation.

hardly so. They were lagging badly in industrialization. they were at a better place than Russia at the same time, but still, pretty bad.

[Chilean Presidentâ„¢]

South Killer you've got it wrong. The argentinians history book say that San Martin cross the Andes a liberate Chile, but the truth is that San Martin cross it in 1817, Chile was already free since 1810.

Anyway, I keep my believe that no South American country have achieve a goal to include it in a CIV game. Maybe old empires like the Incas or the Mayas should be included. Argentina has never reach a developed point, as Chile, Mexico and (maybe) Uruguay and Brazil have achieved. But afeter the crisis I belive that Argentina could be refunded or rebuild to have the former economic strenght.

[Centauri18]

IMVHO in Civ4 we need the Incas for SOuth America. We also need Portugal, mainly because they colonized Spain. We also need Israel for a Civ - despite being small, it is a powerful nation and in many ways the center of the world - and possibly another North American Native Civ.
Please remember, this is just an opinion.
I know that I don't know much about the modern state of most South American countries. I just know that there is widespread poverty in many of them, a rampant drug and counterfeiting trade in Columbia, and such. That's what I know.

[Chilean Presidentâ„¢]

Again I agree with you Centauri. The Incas are the only south american civ that should be included in CIV4 (I hope that Chile could be included in CIV5 ).
Also you're right with your S.A. analysis, poverty and corruption is the big problem in the latin american states, but as I said before a few countries are making the diference, from SA Chile, Uruguay and (maybe) Brazil, and from central america clearly the regional power is Costa Rica who have a growing economy do to the tecnological achievements and the new tec enterprises that have stablish their HQ in that country (Intel, Microsoft, etc.) and the seem to follow the path of Ireland, that has become a tecnological state since 1996-97.

[Wernazuma III]

Originally posted by Chilean President
(I hope that Chile could be included in CIV5 ).

You mean after 2010, when Chile will have freed Tacna, greater Patagonia and Mendoza. Oh, well, skip it: After they "reclaimed" all America west of the 68th degree and expelled all those occupatory research stations on Chilean Antarctican soil

[joncnunn]

Historically, several countries have sought to unify various countries under the same flag.

The disagreement has been under which flag that countries should be unified under.

[Underseer]

Originally posted by Chilean President
pardon for the orthographic and grammatical errors

Considering that your English is far better than my Spanish (I only speak English), no apologies are necessary. The only time that sort of thing annoys me is when people mangle their own languages (e.g. doodz, sportscasters, etc.).

[Chilean Presidentâ„¢]

Originally posted by Wernazuma III
You mean after 2010, when Chile will have freed Tacna, greater Patagonia and Mendoza. Oh, well, skip it: After they "reclaimed" all America west of the 68th degree and expelled all those occupatory research stations on Chilean Antarctican soil

yeah man!
well, actually Tacna is a horrible city, so Peru can keep it
Mendoza..ehmm.. yeah that's cool.. but lets the mendozians to turn back to Chile

but lets be fair, Argentina need their patagonian region so, let them rest for a while (the future is ours )

And about the Antartica, the O'Higgins Peninsula is 100% Chilean.. I know, that a UN treaty said that the Antartica belong to the whole wide world, but only 7 nations have arrived in the early years to claim sovereignty of the white continent (besides Chile, I believe they are; US, UK, Russia, Norway, Australia and New Zeland)

A propósito Werna, tu sabias la historia que cuenta que La Luna es Chilena?

I miss your old avatar Werna, but this is nice too.


Thanks Underseer I also get really annoyed when chilean people mix our own language... specially, as you have said, sportscasters, and soccer players... actually they are creating a new weird language, I think



PS: My regards to the American and Israeli people for that terrible accident. My heart and prays are with the families of the seven space pioneers.

[Wernazuma III]

Originally posted by Chilean President

A propósito Werna, tu sabias la historia que cuenta que La Luna es Chilena?

I miss your old avatar Werna, but this is nice too.

Cuentame! A proposito, conoces el dicho de Talca que simplemente dice "Talca, Paris y Londres"?

About my avatar: I just thought it was time to change it. I don't want to be associated only with a skull all the time - but thanks for noticing.