Expansion Pack: Cities and Leaders, part3: What I still need.

[Selanne]

Thanks fo the correction on Hong Kong. I did not know that. Must go change my game...

[ranskaldan]

Lord Merciless:

Mmm wow, your city list is amazing. I couldn't find a single thing to pick at, which is really not my personality at all. Good job there

In fact, I'm all for throwing out any Chinese city list and replacing it totally with this one.

alright, just a couple of minor things: you could consider removing all the spaces, and adding "Linzi", the ancient capital of the State of Qi. yeah, that's it. Once more, an amazing job

[ranskaldan]

Alright, I can't resist nitpicking, so here are a few more things:

1) I have never heard of "Gongyang" ever.
2) "Yecheng" sounds artificial because it translates as "Ye City". "Ye" sounds much better.
3) If "Nanjing" must be referred to by its old name "Jiankang", by the same logic, so should "Beijing", becoming either "Beiping" or "Yanjing".
4) Xianyang and Anyang seem too high up for a couple of relatively minor cities. (Yes I know they're ancient.)
5) Wuchang comes way too early. It should be in the last 10. I suggest switching it with Wuwei.
6) Some repetitions.
7) Some other concerns over the order.

Here's a reordered version:

Chang'an
Luoyang
Jiankang
Beiping
Kaifeng
Hangzhou
Ye
Chengdu
Suzhou
Linzi

Taiyuan
Yangzhou
Xuzhou
Xiangyang
Nanyang
Jiangling
Anyang
Julu
Handan
Shangdang

Zhengzhou
Wuwei
Changsha
Xuchang
Xianyang
Hanzhong
Datong
Tianshui
Shouchun
Jiaxing

Wuxi
Jinan
Zhending
Liaoyang
Fuzhou
Guangzhou
Quanzhou
Kunmin
Guiyang

Nanning
Chongqing
Lanzhou
Wuchang
Shenyang
Tianjin
Changchun
Dalian
Qingdao
Shanghai

[Lord Merciless]

Wernazuma, the list ranskaldan provided is even better. I'll be using that city list for my my games in the future. He based the order mostly on the time of city foundations. Only the first six are the exception since they have or had been capital cities of major dynasties.

Some explainations:

Yecheng was an important capital level city before the Sui Dynasty(581AD).

Gongyang was a major strategic city in Henan Province before the Huang He shifted its course in 1194AD. It was hotly contested from the Warring States period all the way to the Song Dynasty. I didn't mean that enclave in Shanghai.

Beijing's name is really hard to pick because it has gone through too many transitions:
Ji -> Yuyang -> Youzhou -> Yuyang -> Nanjing(!) -> Zhongdu -> Dadu -> Shuntian -> Beijing -> Beiping -> Beijing.
Yanjing had served as the unofficial name for this city until the name Beijing appeared.

[Ribannah]

Should the China city list contain some Mantsurian cities like Harbin and Tsitsihar? Also missing from the north seem Kirin, and a little further down Lu-Ta.
And how about Taipei?

[Lord Merciless]

Originally posted by Ribannah
Should the China city list contain some Mantsurian cities like Harbin and Tsitsihar? Also missing from the north seem Kirin, and a little further down Lu-Ta.
And how about Taipei?

I don't mind adding Harbin and Qiqihaer if you plan to build more than 50 cities.

Lu-Ta refers in fact to 2 cities: Lushun and Dalian. Dalian is already in the list and Lushun is part of Dalian today.

Kirin was the old way to pronounce the province Jilin. An appropriate city would be Changchun.

I think Taipei is already included.

[Ribannah]

On my map, Kirin (Chi-lin, Jilin, formerly Yung-chi or Yungki) is also a city east of Changchun, founded - originally as a fortress - in 1673 AD.
Changchun is in Ranskaldan's list, I don't see Taipei though.
Thanks for explaining Lu-Ta, it seems joining cities in China has occurred almost as frequently as in The Netherlands.

[ranskaldan]

Just for reference sake, here's the Chinese city list I have been using:

Chang'an
Luoyang
Kaifeng
Taiyuan
Xuzhou
Linzi
Yanjing
Jinling
Yangzhou
Lin'an
Suzhou
Chengdu
Jinzhou
Hanzhong
Liangzhou
Changsha
Xiangyang
Jinan
Guangzhou
Fuzhou
Wenzhou
Nanchang
Quanzhou
Kunming
Guilin
Datong
Lanzhou
Qingdao
Chongqing
Wuchang
Shanghai
Dalian
Shenyang
Chengde
Changchun
Harbin
Jilin
Qiqihar
Anqing
Zhengzhou
Guiyang
Nanning
Yinchuan
Xining
Xiamen
Shantou
Haikou
Shenzhen
Zhuhai
Hong Kong
Macao
Taipei
Kaohsiung
Keelung

It's short but it's served my purposes.

[Wernazuma III]

I've changed the Chinese list for the moment as ranskaldan proposed it. However, I don't think the order of the cities should rely only on the age of a city. I really think Shanghai deserves a place more up in the list, considering the fact that it's certainly the most important Chinese city in the whole industrial times beside Beijing, or am I wrong?
Maybe the list could be rearranged in a way that several factors count:
Importance of a city during a certain time
Duration of importance of a certain city
And finally, when one can't decide which city should go before the other: The date of foundation.

[ranskaldan]

Well that's the problem with Chinese history: it's just so long that every city has had a go at being important. The cities that are further up that Shanghai might be unrecognizable today, but in their times they were major hubs of commerce and politics, while Shanghai was a little fishing village (or less) until the 1800's.
Thus, if you want to order cities by their "importance", "duration", and "date of foundation", then Shanghai is only average for the first (since it's just one in a long line of commercial capitals) and fails for the second and third.

If you really want, you can move Shanghai up by about 10 places. But any more than that, it would be an anachronism.