Worst Leader choice

[Earendil]

I think that Cleopatra is the worst choice of a leader. She is a Greek not even an Egyptian. She is part of the Greek ruling class that was installed by Alexander the great. They ruled Egypt until the romans took over. What make Cleo popular was that she converted to their(the people of Egypt) religion. This is equal to have King Henry V ruler of France. Sure he did rule France but he was an English king that was an occupying ruler, just like Cleo. I cant believe they chose her don't they know anything about history. well that was a little out of order but it realy is a bad choice.

[ntyatecafe]

Who would you suggest for Egypt? King Tut? Nefertiti? Or someone else (my knowledge of Egyptian history is pretty vague)

[BanastreTa]

I think that Ramses the Great (Ramses II) would be the slam-dunk choice for egyptian leader. Great leader, monumental builder, and there is some evidence to suggest that he is the Biblical Pharaoh. Beyond that, the other best suggestions might be Khufu (Cheops), because his tomb is the Great Pyramid, or Tutankhamen, who was a mediocre leader at best, but is probably the best known pre-ptolemaic pharaoh to the general public.

Joan d'Arc, however, is my submission for the worst choice as a civ leader. Apparently, they tried to shoehorn in some younger women at the expense of historical accuracy...

BT

[Panzer]

If you want a female Egyptian leader you should definitely have Hashepsut (sp?), who was better han Cleopatra anyway AND a native Egyptian.

And I agree that Jeanne d'Arc is the worst choice.

[Ecowiz Returns]

Jeanne D'Arc is definetelly the Worse Choice for a Leader.

She would be a good French Heroe and lead an army, but she was never the ruler of France.

All other Leader's are former rulers. Among them, I agree, Cleapatra is a lousy choice too. But at least she was a ruler.

[History Guy]

Ramses II or Tuthmosis the Conqueror were probably the two best choices, I think. But none of them were near half as pretty as Cleopatra.

[Fresno]

Well, Caesar doesn't look like the real one, so i bet they could make a Ramses which will satisfy History Guy completely

[Mongoloid Cow]

Hatshepsut was the first of only three women to ever rule Egypt alone (the other two being Arsinoe IV (for 30 minutes at most) and Cleopatra VII) but it would be ugly to have a woman with a beard! Ramesses II (the Great) would be the only other contender (after all he was the Egyptian ruler in Civ 1)

[Vandle_Savage]

As far as historical accuracy goes, Joan is hands down the worst choice due to her not even being the leader of France.

I agree with Ramses being the better choice.

But what bugs me most of all is the fact Ole Abe is the American choice. Sure, he was a great man (unless you are confederate) and a great pres, but to me the obvious choice is George Washington. Or as was said in another thread, Richard Nixon, when accused of some wrongdoing in the game he could pop out, and shout "I am NOT a crook!"

[Mongoloid Cow]

Richard Nixon

Agreed, Jeanne d'Arc is the worst choice for a leader.

[Aeris]

I actually think Mao Zedong as a representative leader of China is mediocre at best. Yes, he totally revolutionized their economy, but in terms of China throughout history, I regretfully do not know as much as I should, but there are surely much better people and much greater rulers of China than Mao.

[Vlad Antlerkov]

Agreed. Napoleon or de Gaulle would have been a much better leader-- though I admit, Jeanne d'Arc is better to look at

Though if military leaders could be leaders of civs in this game... why not make Patton the American leader? It'd make for some interesting diplomacy sessions with the Germans...

[DarkCloud]

Yes, Joan of Arc should never have been the French Leader

I vote Napoleon, he conquered most of Europe.
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For the Egyptians- what about Neferteri or Ramses II... They should have 2 rulers nevertheless... One female and one male... This would clear most of the complaints about leaders!

[Mongoloid Cow]

For Egyptian female leaders, here are the only contenders:

Nefertiti:
Nefertiti was the wife of Pharoah Akheton, the most hated Pharoah in Egypts history, and the mother of Tutankhamun and his sister-wife Ahkesemimut (I think) When Akheton moved Egypt's capital from Itjtawy or Thebes (Waset) to Akhenaten between Abydos (Abjedu) and Lycopolis (Sauty), he rejected her for a younger wife. She is only known for her many busts (the statue kind).

Hatshepsut:
Hatshepsut was the first woman to be Pharoah, because women were not allowed to rule back then. When her husband died and he had only one son, a 3 year-old, she announced herself regent. When he was 7, she took the throne for herself. She led conquests into Nubia and Sinai, and built many monuments, particularly obelisks, all over Egypt. Later she co-ruled with her son, but he soon killed her, took the throne for himself. He had most traces of her existance destroyed except for her huge, hidden tomb south of Dier el-Medina.

Cleopatra VII:
Cleopatra was the daughter of Ptolemy XII and Cleopatra V. She had other siblings, Ptolemy XIII, Ptolemy XIV, Cleopatra VI, Arsinoe IV, Berenice IV, and one cousin, Ptolemy XI. When her father died, her oldest brother (a 13 year-old) was forced to chose a sister to marry. Eventually a civil war ensued, and in the Alexandrian War, her sister Arsinoe IV was proclaimed Pharoah and Cleopatra VI was killed, but Cleopatra with help from Julius Ceasar was declared Pharoah, and had to marry her other brother Ptolemy XIV. She bore Ceasar a son, Ceasarion (Ptoelmy XIV) and ruled with him after having Ptolemy killed. She tried to help Octavian and Antony in their war against Brutus and Crassus (I'm not sure) but a storm held her up. Henceforth when Antony and Octavian won, Marc Antony travelled to Egypt to here why Cleopatra had not helped. He fell in love with her, and Cleopatra gave him a twins - Alexander Helios and Cleopatra Selene, and another son, Ptolemy Philadelphus. Octavian was outraged at this, and decalred war on Egypt, killed Ceasarion and Antony, and Cleopatra killed herself to avoid being a prisoner. Her children to Antony were raised by Octavian's sister Octavia, who already had 7 children to him.

[dissent]

Joan is by far the most inappropriate leader, but there are many other Civs that had better alternatives, most notably the Persians. Cyrus the Great was without question the greatest Persian leader. I can understand (although not necessarily agree with) the other poor choices, but why Xerxes was chosen instead confounds me.