Extra Pack Finalization Project (Part1)

[Bad Ax]

Sorry W, didn't mean to attribute the sentiments about Arabs to you specifically. They're unfortunately pervasive where I'm situated, from even before the present awfulness, and now people are simply out of control with it. If you have to listen to bigots all the time, it only takes so long before you start to wonder if everyone thinks their way. At any rate, I apologize if any offense was taken.

As to the rest... while an argument over historical counterfactuals would no doubt prove endlessly entertaining to everyone reading this thread , it probably wouldn't bear any fruit, except perhaps to send thousands of poor electrons on a scurrying mission to nowhere. I'll accept for the sake of an expedited discussion your argument that Democracy would absolutely require the discarding of Islam. In that case, Communism is still antithetical to the Arab commercial impulse in a way that Democracy is not. In my book that puts the score at Democracy -1, Communism -2.

In the words of a character whose accent resembles that of my present locale, even if his spirit doesn't -- "That's all I have to say about that."

[molly bloom]

Originally posted by Akka le Vil


1) Slavery was abolished in Mauritania in 1985

2) We don't care about the actual Arab states. The Arab civilization that I think we all speak about is the great Empire build by Mahomet and his successor from the VIIth century to the rise of the Ottoman or Mameluk empire. Talking about actual Arab states is as relevant to the ancient Arab Civ than comparing the Egypt of Pharaoh to the Egypt of Nasser.

http://members.aol.com/casmasalc/mauritan.htm

http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/REslaveryW.htm

http://www.stuorg.iastate.edu/sssa/south9/today.htm

http://www.mosquitonet.com/~prewett/slaveryalivewell.html

http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/world/south_asia/newsid_1033000/1033639.stm

Slavery has been abolished in many places-officially, yet it still persists, in Mauritania and Sudan and elsewhere.

You'll notice I was replying to this thread:

'My comment is: Most Arab governments are monarchies. '

from Bad Ax. I don't think you'll find Mahommed was the Empire builder either- that would be like saying Jesus was a great Christian Empire builder.

[Dr. Nick]

Originally posted by Wernazuma III
News to all Tercio guys: Based on the poll I've made, I've changed the Conquistador to Tercio. Not really fun but democratic.

[Harlan]

I have to agree that the Arab civ should shun Communism more than shunning Democracy. There have been numerous Muslim and Arab democracies. Even Afghanistan was a democracy for a time, and probably will again, the way things are going there. There haven't ever been any Muslim Communist countries. Case closed.

[Wernazuma III]

Well, that's not entirely correct. Some former Soviet states are muslim and communism is still quite strong in some of them. Yet I agree that the more religious people in those states are heavily against communism.

To me it is a tie situation. I will change it for now in the list (2 voices as it seems against my sole voice). But wouldn't it be good to hear some more voices about this topic. I don't want to waste a poll on this.

[Harlan]

Being conquered by the Russians and absorbed into the Soviet Union isn't the same thing as picking Communism of your own free will. As soon as the SU broke apart, all those -stans dropped Communism like a hot potato. True, like other former Communist countries many of the same people and even parties are still there, but their policies are totally different.

[molly bloom]

Originally posted by Harlan
Being conquered by the Russians and absorbed into the Soviet Union isn't the same thing as picking Communism of your own free will. As soon as the SU broke apart, all those -stans dropped Communism like a hot potato. True, like other former Communist countries many of the same people and even parties are still there, but their policies are totally different.

More importantly, those territories, whilst having Muslim populations weren't Arab; Turks, Tatars, and so forth, are not Arabs.

[Wernazuma III]

Harlan: Like in most ex-communist countries, even Russia itself. And I didn't want to say that muslim countries are fertile ground to communist regimes. Yet Communism proved to (not) work in muslim countries just as everywhere else.

Originally posted by molly bloom
More importantly, those territories, whilst having Muslim populations weren't Arab; Turks, Tatars, and so forth, are not Arabs.

Right, once we started discussing Islam only, we moved off topic.

I still think both options could be used as shunned gov., but the debate should be over now, I can perfectly live with Communism too. I probably only insisted so much because I thought you (molly) wanted to present me a perfectly democracy-compatible Arabia (Sorry, now you can show me the -sign with good reason )

[molly bloom]

Originally posted by Wernazuma III

Right, once we started discussing Islam only, we moved off topic.

I still think both options could be used as shunned gov., but the debate should be over now, I can perfectly live with Communism too. I probably only insisted so much because I thought you (molly) wanted to present me a perfectly democracy-compatible Arabia (Sorry, now you can show me the -sign with good reason )

Umm...perhaps more so than communism. Although various states have flirted with socialism in some form or another, none of the Arab League have embraced Communism wholeheartedly. It could at least be argued, given the existence of secular republics and constitutional monarchies, that the door is at least slightly ajar, with regards to an opening towards democracy of some form.

[darkangel]

An Idea

Aloha!

You guys might want to look at what we are doing as far as a killer mod goes. If you guys like it then maybe we can join efforts.
You folks are working on an aspect we have not really got into yet so it would be a perfect match. Thus far, we have been focusing on the game mechanics, tech tree organization, unit philosophy, and historical accuracy also city and leader database development, graphic and media enhancements.

The person to contact about joining efforts is Velociryx, he is the project coordinator and we use his website for development discussions as we ended up making to many very long threads on Apoly.

Below is our original thread:


The killer mod with no name (yet)

[Wernazuma III]

darkangel: While we plan to make this pack without new tech tree, reources etc., I don't see why we shouldn't cooperate. I think we should not change to much about the original part because we want an Expansion and not really a real Mod. As I've written in the News column, we need graphics for our pack, maybe some of you guys could make them. On the other hand you could use our informations for your pack freely, thus producing an Expansion Mod-Pack. Of course everything with giving proper credits.
What do you (and others) think?

[darkangel]

I'm all for making the best project possible with as many talented people as possible - This is a community after all!

I have told Vex to contact you as well so I'll let you both work out the details if possible.

[genghisvick]

hell yeah!

[ranskaldan]

werna:

can you post
xpack part 7: new city lists and leaders for existing civs
?

[Graeme the mad]

Im posting here because I cant live with something (like you said):

THE ARAB UU BEING ANOTHER KNGIHT REPLACEMENT - ARRGGHHHHHHHH - PLEASE NOOO

I have a better idea - have the arab UU a longbowman replacment (its original aint it) with +1 attack and call it Ghazid (or Mameluke if you prefer)

Please not a Knight replacement (whos with me on this one)