Japan: A Real-Life Civ Success

[Dauphin]

Put another way, if German immigrants arrived in the US in 1946, then they can say "we beat the Germans in WW2", then it is equally valid to say "we lost to the Americans in WW2". To say one without the other is a mistruth for a descendant claiming German heritage and history.

[dexters]

Originally posted by Sagacious Dolphin
Put another way, if German immigrants arrived in the US in 1946, then they can say "we beat the Germans in WW2", then it is equally valid to say "we lost to the Americans in WW2". To say one without the other is a mistruth for a descendant claiming German heritage and history.

Well, you miss the point entirely. You seem well travelled, but I don't think you quite get what an American is. Perhaps there is a difference between living in a country on a temporary basis and living there because your family, or your ancestors moved there to stay permanently.

If the German immigrants had arrived in 1946, and believe me, there were plenty who fled Germany even before World War II broke out, they could say many things, including "We [Americans] beat Hitler's Germany (not the German people)"

The point being immigrants arrive on their own free will. There is usually a contributing factor to them leaving their old home, economic, political or otherwise. When they arrive on these shores, there is a different kind of mentality, perhaps one could say, a kind of disdain for where they came from, but that translates only in loyalty in their new land, not disdain for the culture, people and traditions of their mother country.

That is why China Town, Little Italys, Russian Quarters are a fixture in major North American cities. People come here to build a new life, and in the process, they also build a country, but whatever misgivings they may have had with their old country, it does not bleed over to the cultural aspects of theirlives.

[Dauphin]

I will take one more shot before we agree to disagree. Just answer me this:

If an American of country Y descent, in this case Scottish descent, claims person X, in this case Thomas Blake Glover, as a fellow, then why stop there. Surely all the Scottish peoples/inventors/entrepreneurs/writers (and their actions) should be fellows?

Hence would a Scottish immigrant claim the actions of William Wallace as part of (his) Scottish history/heritage. (I defy any Scot, home or abroad to say no ) If yes then why not the actions of Scots who lost battles in the USA during the revolutionary and post war years?

BTW Oerdin, what do you think?

[dexters]

Originally posted by Sagacious Dolphin
I will take one more shot before we agree to disagree. Just answer me this:

If an American of country Y descent, in this case Scottish descent, claims person X, in this case Thomas Blake Glover, as a fellow, then why stop there. Surely all the Scottish peoples/inventors/entrepreneurs/writers (and their actions) should be fellows?

Hence would a Scottish immigrant claim the actions of William Wallace as part of (his) Scottish history/heritage. (I defy any Scot, home or abroad to say no ) If yes then why not the actions of Scots who lost battles in the USA during the revolutionary and post war years?

BTW Oerdin, what do you think?

I'm not going to ramble on. Let me just say, you won't get it until you yourself is an immigrant.

[nibbles]

well technically as the War of Independence was that a war of Independence, there wasn’t any Americans in the War of Independence it was more Settlers V Britain as the US as a Nation didn’t exist, indeed many of the Settlers would off been 1st /2nd generation so in effect it was more akin to a Civil War than anything else.
Also there wasn’t a War of Independence in the USA , there was a War in the Colonies would be more accurate, as the USA didn’t exist at that point.
By the way the Zulus didn’t win any wars, Brave though.

I actually long for the Day when there isn’t the distinction Italian Americans, African Americans or Irish Americans but just Americans who no matter there roots class America as there Origin.

That will the day when America comes off Age it seems that due to this Cultural/ Lack of History thing a lot of the people in the US still cling to where there roots of there origin. Make where you are now the commonality between people.
Im English/Irish living in England but i class myself as English. Why because im spent a total of 4 weeks in Ireland out of 27 years, my Education my life has been in England ( even though with many Irish Descendants in the UK ) even though im proud of my Irish roots i cant pretend to be Irish, my blood maybe but culturally im not.
Again i have more in common with English / Irish English / West Indian English etc than i do with say English ex pats living in the US / i would say those English Ex Pats living in the US have more in common with Italian Americans than they do with me.

Culture / History is an assimilation of groups that provide a common identity , i think eventually this symbolic link of many Americans with there ancestral home will eventually come to an end and then it will evolve into a shared American culture.

[Dinner]

Originally posted by Sagacious Dolphin
Oerdin,

Ahh yes, we Scots do keep popping up don't we?

not before we sacked several of the largest cities in British North America. Plus we stopped them butt cold in the Carolinas and humilated them in Lousiana.

I am aware of your Scottish background but these statements are inconsistent.

You want to have your cake and eat it!

Sagacious,
LOl, yes you are correct. I guess we'll have to chalk it up to the dichotomy of hiphonated Americanism... (As in Scottish-American)

[Dinner]

Originally posted by Sagacious Dolphin
I will take one more shot before we agree to disagree. Just answer me this:

If an American of country Y descent, in this case Scottish descent, claims person X, in this case Thomas Blake Glover, as a fellow, then why stop there. Surely all the Scottish peoples/inventors/entrepreneurs/writers (and their actions) should be fellows?

I most certainly do claim them.

Hence would a Scottish immigrant claim the actions of William Wallace as part of (his) Scottish history/heritage. (I defy any Scot, home or abroad to say no ) If yes then why not the actions of Scots who lost battles in the USA during the revolutionary and post war years?

BTW Oerdin, what do you think?

And I claim those fellows as well, however, to avoid logical inconsistencies I am forced to prioritize my allegencies with my loyalty to the U.S. taking precidence over the U.K. when the two are in conflict.

As the Dukes of Burgondy found out in the middle ages it is difficult to serve two masters.

[Dauphin]

Originally posted by Oerdin


I most certainly do claim them..

Even the baddies who fought to prevent American from having independence!

Oh wait, they were co-erced.