Remove the Americans

[heron]

I've been playing civ3 for some time now but it bothers me that the Americans are in as a civlization. I mean, they only exist for about 200 years. They don't even have some history.
I say remove them from the game and put in some real people, like the Inca's, the Jews or some African people.

Made it a poll so I can see what other people think.

[Dauphin]

Being new I'll cut you some slack, but this has been gone over at length, and raised some "heated" debated.

My personal view is that the US should not be taken out, the Iroquois and Zulus are much much more in need of being chopped.

[Adagio]

We're all tired of such postings as this one.

The Americans stays in the game.

It's not about how long a civilization has existed, but what the civ has made through that time!!! In Civ3 it doesn't matter for how long you have existed, you can still get the number 1 score, even if your civ was destroyed early in the game. You can also get the number 1 score by having 1 city the first half part of the game and then somehow start taking over a lot of cities and gain a lot of points (Did that in one of my games).

[Akka]

Re: Remove the Americans

None of them should be removed, except perhaps the Germans.
All of these civilizations have a culture that is really their own, had at some point a tremendous power and influence in their area, and left us memories about them.
USA are actually a superpower and are in a state that would be the "golden age" in Civ3. The US culture, as low-quality as it is, is largely spread and overwhelm most of the other countries cultures. There is a lot of things that, when we see/hear them, can NOT be associated with anything but USA (Hollywood, country music, etc...). They ARE a civilization, and historians in the year 2400 won't be able to tell that american civ did not existed.


Iroquois and Zulu are the representants of cultures/civ that western people don't much know about. Native americans and old african empires had their own culture, which existed only here. I can hardly tell the difference between the Mali empire culture and the Zulu one, but it's most probably only because my ignorance about african culture make them look a lot alike, like for people from other cultures, Rome and the ancient Greece just are the same. Discarding any civ just because we don't know about them shows only ignorance.

[xane]

The US culture, as low-quality as it is, is largely spread and overwhelm most of the other countries cultures

If "US Culture" is defined as succumbing to hype, then the above statement is probably true. The crux of quite a few arguments is that many people actually think American "culture" rules the world, a fact sadly untrue, although it could be said "anti-American culture" is more dominant

Hollywood pales in comparison to Bollywood, all the great American inventions are merely re-inventions of other established culture products (Hamburgers, etc). This has been the real ongoing argument, trying to convince supporters of an existing superpower culture that they aren't really that big after all.

My personal opinion is that Americans should be in the game because of the uniqueness and significance of the culture, not because it was percieved as "largely spread". The game is about different cultures attempting to rise to dominance, so by default they all begin small. We should not judge historical civilizations on their size or influence.

[LordLynch64]

My point

If you remove the Americans you have to remove the Germans, the Iriquios, the Aztecs, the Zulus, and any others I am forgetting on the same reasoning that you remove the Americans.

The German Nation-State has only exsisted for 200 some odd years they were a lose confederation of tribes during antiquity never really united. During the middle ages they were the Holy Roman Empire a lose group principalities only united in title. Up untill several wars with the French and other European Empires (my history escapes me) in the late 19th centurary did Prussia unify the German state we see today. Even today culturaly the Modern German State we see isn't culturally unified you go to Bavaria many people will say they are Bavarian before they say they are German. Fact of the matter is the German civilization is as young as the AMerican Civilazation. Most people don't see this because the geographical Germany wasn't covered in the mysterious shrowed the American continent was.

The Zulu Nation only exsisted 300 years, before being conquered and subjegated by the British Empire in the 19th Centuary. The Zulu Tribes did not have the Zulu culture untill Shaka came to power in the early part of their history.

The Aztecs only exsisted a few short centuaries in the copacity that we view as civilized. Then they were destroyed by the Spanish.

The Iriquios Were only in exsistance for a few short centuraies as a lose confederation of tribes. To fight off the new Invaders but soon they were subdued and placed on reservations.

My point is that Civilization is a broad term. We need to define what we mean when we say civilized. American culture is, contrary to what many people say on these boards, a broad sweeping economic highly influential culture. Yes it has been built on top of many other great civilizations and ideas but that is the nature of our world. Reality says that even now this game was developed in the United States it was originaly programed in English, which by the way to many uneducated out there in the US and other countries is American. I think we as a species need to realize the origins of all civilizations was set in motion along time ago in the primodieal stuff that gave us all life.

[Rosacrux]

Oh, no, not another "sack the yanks" thread... gosh, this is getting tiresome...

Nobody gets out! All 16 stay as they are.

[SerapisIV]

Yeah the Americans shouldn't be in, instead we should replace it with the Dutch. The Dutch would be hard-coded into Civ3 to be placed in between the French and the Germans. Once war is declared between the two, the Dutch cities would automatically be assimilated into the more powerful civ until a peace treaty is signed when the cities then revolt back to Dutch.

Why bother starting a new thread, just use the America isn't old enough thread for your US bashing.

[Barnacle Bill]

Leaving America in is the lesser of two evils, when the only options the game currently allows is "in at 4000 BC or never".

The RIGHT answer would be if civs could be launched via events. I wish Firaxis had done what Paradox did regarding America in EU2 - maybe it happens, maybe not, depending on what happens in the game prior to the time when America is possible, and if it happens it happens as in history - a revolt of English colonies.

BTW, America is just the latest in history of a lot of "Johny-come-lately's" in the game - the only civ in the game that was really around AS SUCH in 4000BC is Egypt. Two of them never were, at ANY time in history, a civilization at all.

[G.A]

Pfff. Do you realise, how removing the Americans would cost???
It`s an American game, damnit, and knowing the Americans` patriotism, half of them would stop buying it

Why else do you think, FIFA series features MLS?

[Gromit]

Which two were they then Barnacle Bill?
I hope you are not refering to the Zulus and the Iroquois...

[Solomyr]

who is the current leader of the world? good or bad, america is the current 'great civilization' and should be in since the game is being made today.

[molly bloom]

GAH! Enough already. Leave in the Americans. If people as erudite and charming as Oscar Wilde and Charles Dickens can detect differences 'twixt the U.S. and the U.K., who are lesser lights, such as ourselves, to gainsay them? Are they distinctive enough?

Does Macy's tell Gimball's?

[Samourai Steven]

Yeah, leave them. You can't just turn off the most powerful civilization today - and maybe of all history - just because they're recent. The French and English appeared about 1000 AD, the Chinese had many different dynasties and even periods of anarchy, Egypt was no longer independant under Turkish rule... The truth is that Civ can not really simulate a civilization, it's really a rough - if highly enjoyable one - approximation.

[War4ever]

leave the americans in..its the only chance in your life time that you will be able to punish the american infidels