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Apolyton ExtraCivs Pack: Spanish Unique Unit

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  • Apolyton ExtraCivs Pack: Spanish Unique Unit

    As explained in the main discussion thread, we should decide on some of the Unique Units for the Apolyton ExtraCivs Pack ASAP so the graphics people can start working when they're ready. So that's what this thread is about: deciding what the Unique Unit of the Spanish should be. I think I picked the most logical choices but feel free to post alternatives (if 'Other' becomes very popular we could have a 'second round').

    For each civ I added a very brief description to give an impresssion of the importance of each unit. Note that I had to make 20 odd descriptions for 5 threads so I didn't bother doing extensive research or anything, 95% of the info is from the top of my head. So it's quite possible I made some mistakes or left out vital information or whatever. I very much encourage others with more knowlegde and time to post more elaborate explanations and/or point out my mistakes (some pictures could be useful as well, esp. for the graphics people).


    Explanations:
    The Spanish Galleons were the massive Renaissance Age ships which Spain used to travel to the New World. They were generally much larger than English or Dutch vessels (their main adversaries) with many more cannons and in 1-on-1 'shout-outs' the Spanish would easily win (the English and Dutch ships had the advantage of speed and manouverability of course).

    The Spanish Tercios were the infantry unit of the Kings of Spain in the 16th and 17th century. They combined the firepower of the harquebus (later the musket) with the pikes. The Tercios formed the elite forces of the Spanish monarchy. Contrary with others troops they fought only for one master, the King of Spain.

    Conquistadors were the conquerors of the New World. They were elite warriors and extremely heavily armed. Small groups of these conquistadors could and did conquer entire (American) civilizations (though these victories weren't purely based on military might but relied on politics, diplomaty, mythology and diseases as well).
    181
    (Spanish) Galleon
    22.65%
    41
    Tercios
    18.23%
    33
    Conquistador
    58.01%
    105
    Other
    0.55%
    1
    Don't know/Don't care
    0.55%
    1
    Administrator of WePlayCiv -- Civ5 Info Centre | Forum | Gallery

  • #2
    I would add that French Musketeers fought for the king, too.
    In Soviet Russia, Fake borises YOU.

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    • #3
      No Spain!!!

      I would also question the idea of including Spain in the game. Its cultural influence throughout history was not all that great, and their role as a major country was only very short.

      If you want to add a civ, the Ottomans are really the ones missing!
      In Soviet Russia, Fake borises YOU.

      Comment


      • #4
        I'd go for galleon to have another naval civ since all of the choices you suggest are good ones.
        To doubt everything or to believe everything are two equally convenient solutions; both dispense with the necessity of reflection.
        H.Poincaré

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        • #5
          Well the question is, what would you make a unit once it's descided as far as power? I agree the unit should be some sort of early gunpowder infantry which was used during spain's golden age.

          Musketmen are already 2/4/1.
          French Musketeers are 3/4/1.

          What logical extra would a Spainish unit get? 5 defense is too powerful. 3 attack is dedundant.

          Its rough assigning special units that arent dedundant for so many civs......maybe thats why there are less in this one.

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          • #6
            I would make it the conquistador...a mounted musketeer. 5.2.2 perhaps?
            "Chegitz, still angry about the fall of the Soviet Union in 1991?
            You provide no source. You PROVIDE NOTHING! And yet you want to destroy capitalism.. you criminal..." - Fez

            "I was hoping for a Communist utopia that would last forever." - Imran Siddiqui

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            • #7
              give conq. 2/4/2 ... that'd be new

              Comment


              • #8
                2/4/2??

                The conquistador was not a defensive unit in any way. Why a huge defensive stat and an offense comparable to the horseman? They used gunpowder!!
                "Chegitz, still angry about the fall of the Soviet Union in 1991?
                You provide no source. You PROVIDE NOTHING! And yet you want to destroy capitalism.. you criminal..." - Fez

                "I was hoping for a Communist utopia that would last forever." - Imran Siddiqui

                Comment


                • #9
                  Conquistador or Tercio?

                  While the conquistador is an obvious sentimental favorite, what made Spain master of Europe in the 16th and early 17th century was the tercio, which gave them the greatest land army of the period. Perhaps make the tercio 2/5/1 musketman. This is a high defense yes, but the tercio was a mixture of pikemen and musketmen that worked together in intigrated units, finally beaten by better use of cavalry and artillery introduced by the Swedes in the 30 years war.
                  As for what a conquistador should be, a 3/4/2 mounted musket since they won with speed and superior firepower vs. the Inca and Aztec. This would be powerful units though, which is why tercio is better.
                  If you don't like reality, change it! me
                  "Oh no! I am bested!" Drake
                  "it is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong" Voltaire
                  "Patriotism is a pernecious, psychopathic form of idiocy" George Bernard Shaw

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                  • #10
                    That means if it attacks fortified pikeman, it is much more likely to lose than win. How is that accurate??
                    "Chegitz, still angry about the fall of the Soviet Union in 1991?
                    You provide no source. You PROVIDE NOTHING! And yet you want to destroy capitalism.. you criminal..." - Fez

                    "I was hoping for a Communist utopia that would last forever." - Imran Siddiqui

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Hehe, guys lets not forget, #1 the special unit should replace a regular one! That means if you are gonna replace the musketman, you have to beat 2/4/1 (and not copy 3/4/1), or if you should replace cavalry 6/3/3. And #2 you can't downgrade a unit to the point where someone would want the regular unit you replace back.

                      Musketmen is the unit to replace in any case. Increase the movement, like suggested by someone earlier 2/4/2.

                      Although not representative of high attacking power......it does show how these units even in unfamilar terrain, manage to dictate the battle site so it works into their advantage.

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Oncle Boris
                        I would add that French Musketeers fought for the king, too.
                        civ3.com made it seem like the cardinal/bishop of whatever had an influence over them, too. it's just that he was in turn very loyal to the king

                        and the spanish have to go with the Conquistador, they cleared out some big native tribes for the crown to install the viceroys in mexico and peru. those were very good to the crown.
                        Prince of...... the Civ Mac Forum

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                        • #13
                          Realistically, the Conquistador should replace the Explorer. How about a 3/0/5 Explorer, with roadless movement like the explorer has...

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                          • #14
                            Re: Conquistador or Tercio?

                            Originally posted by GePap
                            While the conquistador is an obvious sentimental favorite, what made Spain master of Europe in the 16th and early 17th century was the tercio, which gave them the greatest land army of the period. Perhaps make the tercio 2/5/1 musketman. This is a high defense yes, but the tercio was a mixture of pikemen and musketmen that worked together in intigrated units, finally beaten by better use of cavalry and artillery introduced by the Swedes in the 30 years war.

                            The result of this poll is a bit disappointing. That's why I thank GePap for the above posting... Let's also add that the Tercios remained unbeaten for almost 150 years, i.e approx. half of the "very short period of Spain as a major country".
                            Last edited by Jay Bee; November 15, 2001, 08:51.

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                            • #15
                              Yeah and if you let Europeans pick the american special unit they'd probably choose cowboy, so what's your point?

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