Apolyton ExtraCivs Pack: German Unique Unit

[Ecthy]

While I'm glad my suggestion of using the Prussian infantrist as UU was adapted by a respected poster, I'm irritated it is accepted by so few people. One history person has told us the Prussian infantry of that age wasn'tthat superior, but we do know the Founder's Age is closer to a Golden Age than the 3rd Reich... and what would another trigger for the golden age be? I can't remember there are any major wonders of the world in Germany.. Bach's Cathedral maybe, and Koperinkus' observatory... are both in Civ3?

[Locutus]

Thanks for the pix, MacTBone, even though they probably won't be needed anymore...

Frodo,
Thanks for correcting that. I suspected Panzer was a specific type but I wasn't sure. It at least developed into the German word for Tank over time...

Ecthelion,
I'm afraid the CSAs of the Germans are Scientific and Militaristic so I don't think those wonders (if they exist) would trigger the German Golden Age. Looks like Firaxis is really aiming at the 3rd Reich for Golden Age... (As with the Spanish UU, another fine example of history written by the victor )

[Aurel]

V2

just another idea: what about the V2 rocket used at the end of WW2. i dont know much about it but i think it was a unique technological advancement that time.

[Adm.Naismith]

I must agree that one main driver in CSU choice should be its effect about "Golden Age" timing.

OTOH, if you aren't rewriting history on a good earth map, you can consider german special unit without fear of a bad definition of "Golden Age"

If that the case, U-Boat did a devastating campaign, both for technical merits and for superior tactics, in WWII.

I'd like to point out that the real unique (no equivalent) weapon system during WWII that only German used was the V-1 / V-2 rocket/missile (as Aurel mention above).

I put both on the table because, while I know they where quite different, I suppose we can put one or the other in Civ III as better they fit existing rules and balancing.

For not dedicated reader (I already mentioned this in an old post) I remember V-1 was the first "concept" of modern cruise (conventional warhead) missile, while V-2 project is still very close to current available balistic missile like SCUD family (widely available with some customization in IRAQ, IRAN, China, Pakistan, etc.).

Of the two, V-1 should be interceptable by fighters in air-superiority mission, while the V-2 should be stopped only with an SDI advance.

No others country had similar weapons until they get secret projects and engineers teamwork from captured German laboratories and launch sites.

If the missile units doesn't fit with the Civ III limits, and U-Boot aren't good for large landmass random map, I suggest to keep Panzer but renaming them.

[Jason]

I've never gotten a golden age from a late-model UU yet! You always get one before that I find. The hard part for the Germans is a scientific wonder - perhaps Newton's is best. Military wonders are easy though; two very strong wonders, Sun-Tzu's and Womens' Suffrage, trigger for militarists.

Again, I just don't see a special strength to the infantry of the 1860s Prussian forces... They were certainly all that they should be, but for 1-1 superiority in troops its' best to look to Frederick the Great I think. It's in part the Prussian legend from that time that lends lustre to all subsequent German triumphs of arms.

[Ecthy]

Hey, we're also talking about halfway historical correctness here... so we should consider it might be wise to find a scientific or military wonder that was actually built in Germany

Without that, a golden age can only be triggered by the unit, or a wodner that historically doesn't belong to Germany... I know, historic realism is not all, but it should at least be possible to come halfway close t oreality in the game, at least with the civ you're playing as... well why don't we build wonders like "Big red house with yellows spots" but use decent institutions from he past? Because of realism, so get it sorted, Firaxis.

Either a new unique unit for Germany or a scientific or military wonder that you can find in Germany in the real world... apart from that...

But then, Copernicus' Observatory might be a solution... the poles would argue the man was Polish, and yes, he's of Polish heritage, but as far as I remember, he lived under citizenship of a German state, so

is Copernicus' Observatory in the game?

[Ecthy]

http://apolyton.net/forums/showthread.php?s=&postid=604792&t=5614#post604792

[Martinus]

Originally posted by Ecthelion
But then, Copernicus' Observatory might be a solution... the poles would argue the man was Polish, and yes, he's of Polish heritage, but as far as I remember, he lived under citizenship of a German state, so

Actually, if anything it was the other way around. The guy was a Polonised German (he spoke Polish etc.), but he was a subject of the Polish King.

Besides, how Copernicus' Observatory would be "Militaristic" is beyong me

[Ecthy]

And how a civ would only have one special characteristic is beyond me. The Germans are militaristic and scientific, and I'm actually asking for scientific or militaristic wonders.

And if you had ever played the game Civilization, you would know that Copernicus' Observatory is indeed a scientific wonder.

Before you treacherous person change your post, here is the relevant line:

how Copernicus' Observatory would be "Militaristic" is beyong me

I don't bear responsibility for bad orthography, BTW.

[Martinus]

Originally posted by Ecthelion
And how a civ would only have one special characteristic is beyond me. The Germans are militaristic and scientific, and I'm actually asking for scientific or militaristic wonders.

And if you had ever played the game Civilization, you would know that Copernicus' Observatory is indeed a scientific wonder.

So I misunderstood you. I thought you were asking for a wonder than singlehandedly triggers GA for Germans. In that case the wonder would have to be both Scientific and Militaristic. Of course, now, Germans may indeed build both Copernicus' Observatory (which is Scientific) and some Militaristic wonder (like Sun Tzu or Great Wall) and get GA - only that, unlike Pyramids for Egyptians for example (which are Industrious and Religious at the same time), Germans would have to build BOTH to get GA. (And I have been playing Civilization for the last 2 weeks, btw)

I don't bear responsibility for bad orthography, BTW.

Oh ha ha. Kill me for a typo

[Ecthy]

Oh well, I didn't even know both characteristics have to be served by the wodner

that means they do have to build either a 'foreign' wonder (historically inaccurate) or they give us a German wonder that serves both effects

Well, some others might argue that there can't be a wonder for each civ, but then most civs have decent unique units

as for the style of my response - I am quite.. 'vigilant' with your kind since some of your compatriots have been a pain on me lately...

My parents still studied in Poland!!

[Martinus]

Originally posted by Ecthelion
Oh well, I didn't even know both characteristics have to be served by the wodner

that means they do have to build either a 'foreign' wonder (historically inaccurate) or they give us a German wonder that serves both effects

Well, some others might argue that there can't be a wonder for each civ, but then most civs have decent unique units

Well, as a matter of fact, first time I learnt there were going to be 16 or so wonders and 16 civs, I thought each civ will get its own wonder - obviously it didn't

For example no wonder comes even close to be a wonder of Aztec or Indians - while Chichen Itza (perfect Militaristic and Religious wonder, as it was used to sacrifice captured enemies to the gods) or Taj Mahal (arguably Commercial and Religious - as it is a tomb and a great tourism attraction at the same time ) would both serve this purpose very well. It would be harder to find suitable wonders for Iroquis or Zulus (which brings us to the alltime question - are they really civs?) though, but it shouldn't be a problem with a bit of imagination.

Perhaps we could still revamp them all somehow.

as for the style of my response - I am quite.. 'vigilant' with your kind since some of your compatriots have been a pain on me lately...

He he. Go Poland!

But seriously, I am perhaps a bit older (and a bit more moderate)

[Ecthy]

as long as you don't call me a Nazi just because I'm German I shouldn't mourn...

[Martinus]

Originally posted by Ecthelion
as long as you don't call me a Nazi just because I'm German I shouldn't mourn...

LOL

(I hope you are not serious btw It would be bad if you thought I would feel that way about Germans )

[Ecthy]

some Polish polytubbies do