Apolyton ExtraCivs Pack: German Unique Unit

[His Divine Shadow]

I voted for the Prussian Rifleman/Grenadier. Like it or not, Prussia was the stepping stone for Germany's Golden Age, bar none. The Prussian rifleman's Dreyse needle gun was a breechloader in a world of musketloaders, which gave them superior battlefield ability, and Prussia invented the General Staff, which means their army was the most fundamentally-organized in the 19th Century. The Prussian military has been emulated by cultures as far and diverse as Japan. The lockstep legions of Prussia were the thing to have in Europe after Napoleon, and that has to count for something.

Ideally, General Staff would be a nice wonder, though the military academy thing pretty well sums it up already. Some modification to Sun Tzu's AoW, perhaps?

[Jason]

The Prussian rifleman's Dreyse needle gun was a breechloader in a world of musketloaders

Musketloader? You mean muzzle loader? Wasn't such a wonder, just better than the garbage the Austrians had. The Prussians actually were at a conspicuous small-arms disadvantage compared to the French, with the much better Chassepot. And yet they beat them handily.

The Franco-Prussian war featured better generals and better artillery handling, and better mobilization as well. That doesn't mean we should build up the formidable myths about Prussia any more than they already have been.

I wouldn't worry about the German golden age placement being off. If you build Sun Tzu's and ANY scientific wonder, you'll have your golden age at some strange time anyway. I had my French golden age before I even got Musketeers.

[SaintOf7]

jaja

by trhe way the special Unit can be the tank "Leopard2 A5!"
it's maybe the most modern tank in the world!
ot the tigers in ww2

[Dr. Nick]

Originally posted by d_dudy


i know, i know, i was just kidding with you. wasn't it you gianny was arguing with about one of the south american nationalities?

Probably.

[Pezeteros]

Rename to Pather sounds best to me.

V2 is a good idea, but I wouldn't like to see default civs' attributes changed.

I'd go with rename to other model (Panther IMHO) or keep Panzer

If you could make it look like Panther would be cool

[Sünert]

The golden age of germany is the time after 1950 IMO.
I would stay with the Panzer but would rename it Leopard II ( AFAIK it is akcnowledged as the best tank also our Bundeswehr is just laughable )

[Harovan]

I know, nobody reads this thread anymore, but I post this comment anyway.

I often play with the Germans and almost never have my golden age in the "Panzer time". Usually I build at least one of the science wonders (Copernicus and/or Newton) and a militaristic (Universal Suffrage) and -voilà- have a GA in the early industrial age. That's much better than in the end of this age, where a GA produces more pollution than benefit.

So don't touch the Panzer's, and don't rename them.

Btw: The late German tanks (Tiger and esp. Panther) surely were a match for the T34, even for the T34/85. But they came too late and were not enough to change something. Later the Russians brought the JS tanks with their monstrous 120mm cannons, and the Americans outnumbered them with LOTs of Shermans, and the era of the Tigers (and "King Tigers", Tiger II) was over.

[Wernazuma III]

Sir Ralph: We will not change anything of the existing Civs, except for their city lists and leaders, so don't worry

[Ecthy]

Copernicus is not a scientific wonder, alas

[Ecthy]

wieso quatschen wir hier eigentlich englisch?

[Harovan]

Originally posted by Ecthelion
Copernicus is not a scientific wonder, alas

Ummm... thought it was! Anyway, I mostly build both, if it's possible even in the same city, so it doesn't matter.

Originally posted by Ecthelion
wieso quatschen wir hier eigentlich englisch?

Weiß nicht... für die paar Hanseln aus den anderen Ländern vielleicht?

[Harovan]

Originally posted by Wernazuma III
Sir Ralph: We will not change anything of the existing Civs, except for their city lists and leaders, so don't worry

Thank god, may be we finally get rid of Richtoffen, Hengest and Horsa. Take Hermann the Cheruskian, (Barbarossa is already in), Frederick the Great, Gneisenau, Scharnhorst, Blücher, Moltke, ... (there are so much good, we even don't need to mention Guderian, Manstein or Rommel the Desert Fox, who were excellent generals, but fought in the wrong war).

[Ecthy]

Ich war geradezu enttäuscht darüber, dass Copernicus ein Expansionist-wunder ist... Wo es doch ein "deutsches Wunder" ist (ich sag das auf deutsch weil sonst wieder die Forum-Polen angerannt kommen und jammern ), und unsereins in Civ3 Wissenschaftlich ist...

[Ecthy]

Ansonsten liest das hier bestimmt kaum noch ein nicht-Zentraleuropäer

As for Richthofen, Hengest and Horsa - I never understood why there's no puking smiley at Apolyton.

I replaced them with Arminius, Blücher, Friedrich, Moltke... oh god, maybe even some more

[Manstein3]

a lot to say for me...

@Locutus
the Gemans may have been famous for their tanks in WW II, but first, this was not theri Golden Age IMO and second, the early tanks weren't better, but worse than French and Russian one. the German superiority resulted from Tank STRATEGY (instead of using them as support for infantry), coordination with air forces (stuka, which also were quite bad planes regarded isolated at), and General Staff (which really would be the genuine German (Military) wonder, beside Bachs Cathedral and the printing press)

Teh prussians did not conquer Germany. They fought a war against Austria and got Silesia (now in Poland), against Denmark and got Schleswig, and against Napoleon and got huge Rhine territories and Saxon, I thin, which was allied to Nap.
Teutonic knights are a godd idea. They really were superior as individuals, for instance against muslime warriors because of their 'Kettenhemd', an iron-wired 'pull-over', so to speak. But the French were the same kind at that time...

Germany IMO hat two golden ages, in the time around 1200, when ist was the natural leader of Europe and expanded till Sicily and Eastern Europe - until the German Kaiser did fail in forming a national Empire like the French and English consolidated at that time.
Second one was after napoleons defeat until the first World War, when Germany was leading in art, culture, science, economy (surpassing Britain around 1880), military... After Bismarck the wrong people were in command, ruining a nation - and Europe along with it. Germany and France always have been the heart of Europe since the decline of the Roman Empire.