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Apolyton ExtraCivs Pack: German Unique Unit

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  • Apolyton ExtraCivs Pack: German Unique Unit

    As explained in the main discussion thread, we should decide on some of the Unique Units for the Apolyton ExtraCivs Pack ASAP so the graphics people can start working when they're ready. So that's what this thread is about: deciding what the Unique Unit of the Germans should be. I think I picked the most logical choices but feel free to post alternatives (if 'Other' becomes very popular we could have a 'second round').

    For each civ I added a very brief description to give an impresssion of the importance of each unit. Note that I had to make 20 odd descriptions for 5 threads so I didn't bother doing extensive research or anything, 95% of the info is from the top of my head. So it's quite possible I made some mistakes or left out vital information or whatever. I very much encourage others with more knowlegde and time to post more elaborate explanations and/or point out my mistakes (some pictures could be useful as well, esp. for the graphics people).



    Explanations:
    The Germans were in WWI but especially in WWII famous for their Tanks. Their Blitzkrieg strategy relied heavily on Tanks and Armored Vehicles. Panzer is simply German for Tank. German tanks were generally superior to British and American Tanks but except for the latest models (the old story: too little, too late) were no match for the Russians.

    The U-Boat was also a vital weapon for the Germans, esp. early on in WWII. If it wasn't for some poor decisions by Hitler the U-Boat war on the Atlantic would have been won by the Germans and the British would have run out of supplies, making Great Britain a sitting duck for a German invasion force. The formations in which the U-Boats moved around in the later stages of the U-Boat war was called Wolfpack.

    The Stuka Divebomber was a very poor design for an airplane but it did its job better than anyone had envisioned in advance: precision bombing and scaring the living sh*t out of the enemy. Though it could carry a decent bombload and was equipped with 4 machine guns, its most powerful weapon was probably the horn that gave it its characteristic shrieking sound that quite possibly made it the scariest conventional weapon in the history of warfare (for whoever was the target).

    Prussian riflemen/grenadiers were the troops of the Golden Age of the Germans (the time around the formation of Germany as a country and the Franco-Prussian War). With these troops the Prussians conquered the whole of Germany and no problem with taking on France (taking Paris) or Austria either.

    The Teutonic Knights were an order of knights that in Medieval times conquered an empire together against German and East European pagans. They also fought in the Crusades. Basically they were ordinary knights only highly skilled.
    205
    Keep the Panzer
    52.20%
    107
    Keep the Panzer but rename it (FE to Tiger or another specific model)
    13.17%
    27
    U-Boat/Wolfpack (or a specifc type)
    9.27%
    19
    Stuka Divebomber
    0.98%
    2
    Prussian Riflemen/Grenadier
    12.68%
    26
    Teutonic Knight
    7.80%
    16
    Other (please post suggestions)
    2.93%
    6
    Don't know/Don't care
    0.98%
    2
    Administrator of WePlayCiv -- Civ5 Info Centre | Forum | Gallery

  • #2
    I'm not 100% sure about how this Golden Age-thing works (I don't have the game yet ), but IIRC it's triggered when a UU wins in combat.
    If so, is the 'real' question here ''what do we want as the German Golden Age?''? WW2 (panzer, stuka & uboat), 1870s-80s (Prussian rifleman) or the Middle ages (teutonic knight)?
    CSPA

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    • #3
      Here's a Teutpnic Knight pic I found...


      A German U-Boat...


      And a website with some digitized Stuka images...
      I never know their names, But i smile just the same
      New faces...Strange places,
      Most everything i see, Becomes a blur to me
      -Grandaddy, "The Final Push to the Sum"

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      • #4
        In respect to Germanic horder that scared the living daylights out of the Roman legions, how about the Beserker? It could either be a 2/1/1 unit for 10 shields, or perhaps a 3/1/1 for 20 shields. I think 3/1/1 makes more sense in order to equate them to Roman Legions.
        Also, since this would be an ancient era unit, I think it would be more useful than the panzer (earlier bonuses yield higher turn advantage).
        As for unit design, a warrior with his hair on fire (a commom Berserker image) would be pretty cool.

        Comment


        • #5
          No Stukas!!!

          Please no Stukas or U-boots - while these two units are representative of German units, they were no better than their allied counterparts, unlike most UUs.

          Just keep the Panzer.
          In Soviet Russia, Fake borises YOU.

          Comment


          • #6
            Prussian Rifleman

            While Panzers are what we think of for Germany in WW2, Locutus is right that the golden age of Germany was the 19th, not 20th century- why do you think Bismark. There are also not enough special units in the early Modern Age. Perhaps make their unit a rifleman with 5/6/1 or 4/6/2- either better at attck like the French Musketeer or more mobile and thus more tactically capable, like the Jaguar warrior
            If you don't like reality, change it! me
            "Oh no! I am bested!" Drake
            "it is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong" Voltaire
            "Patriotism is a pernecious, psychopathic form of idiocy" George Bernard Shaw

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            • #7
              As I said here, the 19th century German troops weren't "uniquely" good, even if Prussia kicked some fairly serious tail in the 1860s. Other armies had trained troops of the same sort with the same or better weapons, they were pretty typical. The distinction was in higher command, organization, etc, in my view.

              A 4-4-1 or 3-5-1 musket unit with a cost higher than the French musketeer and dependant on Military Tradition or maybe metallurgy would be a unique German unit. But to be truthful it's simpler just to keep the Panzer. It works! There's no need to debate the qualities of the Panzer IIIe vs the Panzer IV, it's not that specific a game. Hell, the French have musketeers. That's a tip of the hat to Dumas more than any actual history I'm aware of.

              Comment


              • #8
                hope Ecthelion sees this thread



                i say rename the panzer. that's a pretty general word isn't it? don't other germanic languages use panzer as their word for tank?
                Prince of...... the Civ Mac Forum

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                • #9
                  Grenadier and it should have a better attack rating and also a mobility bonus... during the Franco Prussian war the great feat of the German army was to have 300,000 in the front in less than a week thanks to the railways, and then it was a walk in teh park to Paris.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    d-dudy:

                    panzerkampfwagen?

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      I won't call the 3rd Reich a german 'Golden Age', but fact is, that Nazi-Germany was an extremely powerful nation in that era, at least concerning the military.
                      Since the german tanks were an essential part of the Blitzkrieg tactics, I like them very much as the german UU and I also like the name 'Panzer' (whatever they do with it in the translated german version of Civ3).

                      The question about the german golden age is in fact very difficult. I think, the highest overall prosperity existed in past-WW2-germany since the 1950s, but since the german 'Bundeswehr' is outclassed by most armies of other industrial nations it would be hard to find a UU for that aera.

                      In Civ3 there is no need for a 3rd Reich. Without the Nazis I think Germany could have had a real Golden Age in the middle of the 20th century, so for an alternative history in Civ3 the choice of the panzer might not be too bad.

                      As mentioned before, I like it!
                      Last edited by Der PH; November 15, 2001, 05:21.

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                      • #12
                        Does the Teutonic Knight look really short to anybody else?
                        I swear, by my life and my love of it...

                        ...don't you hate pants?

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by SofaKing
                          In respect to Germanic horder that scared the living daylights out of the Roman legions, how about the Beserker? It could either be a 2/1/1 unit for 10 shields, or perhaps a 3/1/1 for 20 shields. I think 3/1/1 makes more sense in order to equate them to Roman Legions.
                          Also, since this would be an ancient era unit, I think it would be more useful than the panzer (earlier bonuses yield higher turn advantage).
                          As for unit design, a warrior with his hair on fire (a commom Berserker image) would be pretty cool.
                          Technically, Berserkers aren't German, they're Germanic/Nordic peoples and they were hardly a civilization. Barbarians they were, but despite that, they had a complex religious and social system, but they had nothing compared to the complex infrastructure of the Romans or the Persians.
                          Life is a journey, not a destination. It is the destination that leads one to journey.

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by IncreduloDriver
                            Does the Teutonic Knight look really short to anybody else?
                            Yes, he's a miniature model. Like those Warhammer Fantasy/40k copper/puter/clay models.
                            Life is a journey, not a destination. It is the destination that leads one to journey.

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                            • #15
                              Panzer Model

                              First of all, Panzer is quite OK, since the models PzKw I through PzKw IV were all generally referred to as Panzer I through Panzer IV.

                              If it has to be a later model, like the Tiger (PzKW VI) or the Panther (PzKw V) I would REALLY suggest the Panther. The advantage of the German Panzer in this game is speed, and the Tiger was increadibly slow. The Panther otoh was quite maneuverable.

                              Still, the Russian T-34 series was generally even faster...
                              Dans leurs châteaux là-haut, ils s'ennuient
                              Pendant qu'en bas nous on danse toute la nuit

                              Roméo et Juliette - Les Rois du Monde

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