What's the deal with Uncle Fester !?!?

[Venger]

Is Joan of Arc bald on the screenshot on the web page today?!?! WTF is up with that? I don't think Kojak led the French. Was this chick bald in real life? No wonder they burned her...

Oh, is there a way to change the names of the AI leaders permanently? Even though it looks like Firaxis backed off the Black Cleopatra, I'd still prefer to change the name to Nefertiti...

Venger

[General Ludd]

[Barnacle Bill]

Re: What's the deal with Uncle Fester !?!?

Originally posted by Venger
Is Joan of Arc bald on the screenshot on the web page today?!?! WTF is up with that? I don't think Kojak led the French. Was this chick bald in real life? No wonder they burned her...

Oh, is there a way to change the names of the AI leaders permanently? Even though it looks like Firaxis backed off the Black Cleopatra, I'd still prefer to change the name to Nefertiti...

Venger

In the medieval period she seems to have hair peeking out from her mail coif.

Actually, Hatshepsut would be a better choice if you actually have to have a female ruler of the Egyptians.

Cleopatra ruled the Egyptians, but was an ethnic Greek from a dynasty founded by one of Alexander The Great's generals (after ATG's empire went bust on his death & every general grabbed a chunk). Egypt had not been independent for centuries before that, and had been in decline for centuries before losing its idependence. Also, Cleopatra was totally dependent on Roman muscle - no Romans and she would have remained out of power after being ejected by the faction favoring her brother.

Nefertiri was a Queen, but her husband the Pharoah was the head guy. She did nothing but pose for a sculture which is now famous.

Hatshepsut ruled in her own name, with the title of Pharoah, at a time when Egypt was a superpower under native dynasties. Her reign was a golden age of peace, prosperity and foriegn trade. She achieved and maintained power through her own political skills in a male dominated society, not by seducing foriegn generals. When she died (of old age), the next Pharoah was her nephew Thutmose III (who hated her and tried to erase her memory) went on to become Egypt's greatest conquering ruler ("the Napoleon of Egypt").

[Venger]

The mummy strikes!

I've seen much on Nefertiti - it is actually becoming more in vogue that she was at a minimum co-pharoah - there was some really wierd stuff going on at the time, religious wise. I should have payed more attention to that damn History Channel piece...

Besides - Nefertiti is easier to say than Hatshepsut (pronounced Het-shay-soo?)

Venger

[Trifna]

I like that screenshot... Joan of Arc wasn,t a conventional girl anyway. She had boy's cut at middle ages. So this isn't that much impossible when modernizing her...

[Yoleus]

Holliwood

Once upon a time there was an american film with a gorgeous actress playing a recruit marine woman, with shaved hair etc. The woman's name in the film was Jane, which is Joan in French. Am I the only one who noticed this?

BTW, I like the "Armée" shirt it seems an "american" robe, casually written in French

[squid]

Demi Moore in "GI Jane". Exactly what I thought at first. Quite funny really, seeing what a warmonger France is in this game.
I like it. But Demi was better with hair

[Peterk]

Joan's a babe in most ages. Love diplomacy with her -she's always so polite too. Wish Queen E didn't look so pale and sickly.
Cleo's smile makes me nervous.

[Barnacle Bill]

Re: The mummy strikes!

Originally posted by Venger
I've seen much on Nefertiti - it is actually becoming more in vogue that she was at a minimum co-pharoah - there was some really wierd stuff going on at the time, religious wise. I should have payed more attention to that damn History Channel piece...

Besides - Nefertiti is easier to say than Hatshepsut (pronounced Het-shay-soo?)

Venger

It when down like this. Nefertiti was the wife of Pharoah Amenophis IV. Amenophis IV was a religious heretic, who introduced a montheistic cult of a sun god named Aten and banned the old religion (and its priests). He changed his name to Akhenaten and moved the capital from Thebes to Tel El-Amarna. While his regime was engaged in religious revolution, he let the Empire go to h*ll in a handbasket. The famous Tel El-Amarna letters record the pleas of his governors & vasals in Egypts foriegn possessions for Pharoah to sent help against the encroachments of other empires. His reign was fairly short (17 years) and Nefertiti disappears from the record several years before it ended. After he died, the old priesthood reasserted itself and wiped out everything he did. The main reason Nefertiti is remembered is that Akhenaten also sponsored a brief revolution in Egyptian art, to portray things realistically rather than the formal & idealized traditional Egyptian style, and she was uncommonly beautiful (he, on the other hand, was pretty dufus-looking). In short, whatever role Nefertiti may have played in the Akhenaten regime, that regime was a failure during its time and left no lasting impact.

Hatshepsut, on the other hand, was a great success. In addition to wise rule of the country, she also sponsored (and sometimes personally led) successful military campaigns. Here is a link about her:

http://www.egyptvoyager.com/features_womeninancientegypt_hatshepsut_01.htm

[Gaius Marius]

Thanks for the lesson (seriously)....

Realistically, though, (and I've said this before), Joan of Arc has no business being the national leader of the French. Plenty of other candidates WERE ACTUALLY LEADERS of the country, lived more than 20-odd years, etc. If you really need to have a female leader...well, I was going to recommend someone for another civ, but noone, tragically and tellingly, comes to mind. No reason to force the issue in contrast to history, though.

[David Murray]

Re: What's the deal with Uncle Fester !?!?

Originally posted by Venger
Is Joan of Arc bald on the screenshot on the web page today?!?! WTF is up with that? I don't think Kojak led the French. Was this chick bald in real life? No wonder they burned her...

Oh, is there a way to change the names of the AI leaders permanently? Even though it looks like Firaxis backed off the Black Cleopatra, I'd still prefer to change the name to Nefertiti...

Venger

I believe we have a name for this in Europe--"Hairism". Bigotry toward the follicularly challenged, pure and simple.

[Barnacle Bill]

Originally posted by Gaius Marius

Realistically, though, (and I've said this before), Joan of Arc has no business being the national leader of the French. Plenty of other candidates WERE ACTUALLY LEADERS of the country, lived more than 20-odd years, etc. If you really need to have a female leader...well, I was going to recommend someone for another civ, but noone, tragically and tellingly, comes to mind. No reason to force the issue in contrast to history, though.

I agree about Joan - kind of like making Horatio Nelson the ruler of of Britain or Patton the leader of the Americans. I think a lot of the leaders were chosen to get a politically-correct male-female ratio. Similarly, I think some of the "civilizations" in the game were no such thing (would better have been on the list of barbarian tribes), and were included for pc-multiculteral reasons while more worthy candidates in other geographies were omitted. Of course, I think that's all fixable via modding (I hope you can substitute still bitmaps for the leader animations in the end, or it will be a bit of a problem since the number of folks who can do animated stuff is a lot smaller than the number who can size photos/portraits of historical leaders downloaded from the net).

Frankly, if one had to have another female ruler then they should have given India to Indira Gandhi and France to Napoleon or Charlemagne or somebody. Mahatma Gandhi didn't really rule the place, and may have proven ineffective had he survived to do so. Indira was in power for a very long time, so you can at least grant her that much.

[David Murray]

Originally posted by Barnacle Bill

I think a lot of the leaders were chosen to get a politically-correct male-female ratio.

OR...maybe they chose her because...well...they thought it would make for a good leader? Or perhaps because she is strongly associated as being an important person in France's history?

Or is that too much of a "politically correct agenda"? lol! You remind me of columnists in newspapers who talk about a liberal elite taking over the planet.

Sorry, just a little aside there. Some ppl need to take things less seriously--not everything is an "agenda".

[Barnacle Bill]

Originally posted by David Murray


OR...maybe they chose her because...well...they thought it would make for a good leader? Or perhaps because she is strongly associated as being an important person in France's history?

Or is that too much of a "politically correct agenda"? lol! You remind me of columnists in newspapers who talk about a liberal elite taking over the planet.

Sorry, just a little aside there. Some ppl need to take things less seriously--not everything is an "agenda".

I stand by what I wrote. Joan of Arc was never even ruler of France, much less the greatest ruler in French history. Catherine by no means qualifies as the greatest ruler in Russian History - Peter the Great, Lenin & Stalin all made bigger marks on history by far. I've already commented on Cleopatra. Frankly, the only female ruler in the game who is supportable is Elizabeth I of England. Just being "important" in history is not enough here. It needs to be someone who is supportable as the MOST important RULER of the country in question.

[monkspider]

Originally posted by Barnacle Bill
I think a lot of the leaders were chosen to get a politically-correct male-female ratio. Similarly, I think some of the "civilizations" in the game were no such thing (would better have been on the list of barbarian tribes), and were included for pc-multiculteral reasons while more worthy candidates in other geographies were omitted.

Gotta love right-wingers and their "PC-conspiracy theories"