APOLYTON EXTRACIVS PACK.

[MrBlud]

We need some fantasy Civs . Here are my suggestions

Decepticons
characteristics: militaristic and expansionist
Head of state : Megatron (title: Lord)
Special Unit: Seekers (equivalent to an F-15, fortifying them transforms them into a ground unit equal to a Tank)

Autobots
characteristics: industrious and religious
Head of state : Prime (title: Optimus)
Special Unit: Prime (a unit holding the matrix capable of completely destroying anything in one turn)

Federation
characteristics: scientific and industrious
Head of state : James T. Kirk (title: Admiral)
Special Unit: Intepid Class (the best air unit in the game)

Empire
characteristics: militaristic and expansionist
Head of state : Vader (title: Lord)
Special Unit: Storm Troopers (an improved infantryman, with no upkeep costs)

A-Team
characteristics: militaristic and industrious
Head of state : B.A. Barracus (title: Sucka)
Special Unit: A-Team Van (an improved mechanical infantry)


These would rock IMO

[ranskaldan]

Currently, the top 16 are:

1. Spanish
2. Mongols
3. Arabs
4. Incans
5. Vikings
6. Turks/Ottomans
7. Phoenicians/Carthaginians
8. Mayans
9. Celts
10. Portuguese
11. Hebrew/Israelis
12. Dutch
13. Poles
14. Ethiopians/Aksumites
15. Koreans
16. Polynesians

Though I can't say I agree with all of them, I think it's time to start having everyone post what they think should be the leader/UU/CSU/Capital for each civ.

I don't exactly have the time to maintain a database, so can someone experienced in this sort of thing (e.g. Locutus) maintain a database of the civs somewhere? Include the 16 original and 15 xpack civs, with their attributes. MrBlud has just shown us a perfect example of an organized civ database .

[IncreduloDriver]

Here's something for the Hebrews:

Hebrews:
Leader: Jesus (If Joan can lead France...)
Attributes: Religious and Commercial (Hoorah for the latter!)
Civ-specific Unit: False Messiah (Every few thousand years, they pop out a REAL Messiah, but he's completely worthless in combat)
Cities: Jerusalem, &c. &c.

Also, I see that the Dutch are included in the list right under the Hebrews. If the Dutch are put in, their leader should certainly be Anne Frank. In the grand tradition of Joan of Arc, I think she fits the "most memorable female" category for the Dutch. I know she was a German, but nobody remembers her time in Germany, so that's worthless.

[El hidalgo]

Excellent idea!

Here is a list of cities originally made for Civ 2 (I was one of those who was always fiddling with the civs) but updated, revised and edited for this project. Accurate to the best of my knowledge, but put together more for playability. The list is compiled from various atlases of history and encyclopedia articles.

Notes: In some cases I have included more than one leader or civ with the same city set. It should be fairly obvious what's going on in the list. The different leaders are numbered and their different capitals indicated.

The cities are loosely in order of importance (starting with the capital) or size. Toward the end that breaks down a bit, no doubt, when things get a little random as it gets harder to tell what was important or big -- some of it is a judgment call, some is a guess, some is purely random, and some is personal bias or some other criterion (too many cities starting with 'T' in a row, for example). Certainly my ordering is not the "right" one or even the best, and I make no claim for it. No doubt I will change it myself as time goes on.

I did not indicate any characteristics of the leaders (civ specific abilities). It's just a bare list for now.

I combined the Mali and the Songhai (that's the "playability" thing I was talking about). In other words, the city list contains cities from both civs (but there was a lot of overlap anyways, particularly in the case of the more important cities). If this list is too small (17 cities) I could always add more cities from western Africa that the Mali or Songhai never got around to taking over... less accuracy, more playability...

Civs represented: Mongols, Mali/Songhai, Khmer, Ottoman Turks, and Safavid Persians. True, the Persians are already in there, but I prefer the post-Islamic Persians, as a matter of taste. Different city list too.

There is bound to be some controversy in any city list, because cities were in flux. Should Tabriz be a Mongol city (as in Civ 1&2) or a Persian city? I guess it depends. I put Bucharest, Sarajevo, and Belgrad in the Turkish list. I could take heat for that. But again, I make no claims for the list. Consider it a first draft for this project.

I'd also like to say that I don't see why we have to debate what civs will be in the pack. Why not make whatever people are interested in making? I mean, since we can pick 15 or so out of a very large pool, why not just make a bunch and then you pick whatever 15 you like? I personally would kick out the Iroquois and the Zulus, for example, but then I know not everyone would add the Mali and the Mongols, as I would (or replace the Ancient Persians with the Safavids).

Now I don't have the game yet, so I might be missing something here, but it seems to me we can all get what civs we want, provided enough interested people want to contribute towards making them. A civ is "worthy" if you want to play it or against it, IMHO (much as I dislike the inclusion of the Iroquois). Besides if we make a bunch of civs, more than 15, then we just have that much larger a pool of civs to draw from for scenarios. So if someone wants to make a "Confederate" civ, that will be useful for someone who wants to make a US Civil War scenario (or an alternative history, "what if the South won independence" type of scenario), even if you and I decide not to add it to the regular pool of civs you play with.

Lastly, I think it would be helpful if someone would post a cities.txt file from Civ2. We've got some good lists right there. I personally was unhappy with the Mongol list (too small, for one thing), but the Spanish, Viking, Inca, and Arab lists were pretty good.

I'll do some more work on this when I get a chance. Needless to say my interest in contributing would be making city lists and doing historical research.

Cheers.

[El hidalgo]

Here's an idea for the Chinese UU: the junk. For those who don't like the rider. Arabs could have the dhow. Carthaginians get a war elephant, though with different stats from the Indian elephant (African elephants are different anyway).

[tmarcl]

Originally posted by History Guy
What would the Arab Capital be? And who would be the leader? Suleiman? Saladin? Prince Fisel? Mohammed Ali? ;-)

I'd vote for Mecca, and the leader being Mohammed. The majority of the Arab world is Muslim, as are it's leaders, making it appropriate, IMO.

Marc

[tmarcl]

Originally posted by IncreduloDriver
Here's something for the Hebrews:

Hebrews:
Leader: Jesus (If Joan can lead France...)
Attributes: Religious and Commercial (Hoorah for the latter!)
Civ-specific Unit: False Messiah (Every few thousand years, they pop out a REAL Messiah, but he's completely worthless in combat)
Cities: Jerusalem, &c. &c.

Um. Wow. I'm not even Jewish, and *I'm* offended by that.

Marc

[tmarcl]

Originally posted by ranskaldan

Though I can't say I agree with all of them, I think it's time to start having everyone post what they think should be the leader/UU/CSU/Capital for each civ.

I don't exactly have the time to maintain a database, so can someone experienced in this sort of thing (e.g. Locutus) maintain a database of the civs somewhere? Include the 16 original and 15 xpack civs, with their attributes. MrBlud has just shown us a perfect example of an organized civ database .

Ok, here's my ideas, for what they're worth. I drew a complete blank on some of them.

Marc

[Stuie]

Well, you lost my interest.......

Originally posted by Locutus
While Gramphos and others (who actually have the game) are figuring out the exact number of civs we can add safely, we should start to determine if we're happy with the existing 16 civs. I know there are people on this forum (including yours truly) who would very much like to make some changes in those. We should decide if any changes are desired for this Apolyton ExtraCivs Pack (perhaps we should come up with a better name for it too, any thoughts?) and if so, which ones.

Any changes to existing game functionality should be done separately.

You are going to lose a lot of people if you start messing with the existing civs (myself included). There are several reasons:

1. Most of us are ok with what Firaxis has put in the game.
2. New comers that may otherwise be interested in expanding civs in the game will be put off if changes are made to the original product.
3. Whatever patches Firaxis eventually provides for the game will be based on the current setup of the civs (special units, names, etc.)

I think you're going off on an unwarranted tangent - the mandate set forth by Markos was to work on expanding the number of civs. Like I said, you've lost any help I would have provided (playtesting, design work for the Ethiopians...) if you're going to mess with the current civs.

[maartena]

Civilization III allows for 32 Civs. One of them must be the Barbarians, so that leaves 31. Currently, there are 16 in place, meaning we can add 15 other civilizations.

My 15 additions would be:

The Dutch
The Spanish
The Portugese
The Ottomans (or Turks)
The Indonesians
The Vikings (Norwegians/Swedish perhaps)
The Mongols
The Celts (I miss them from Civ2)
The Mayans
The Inca
The Aboriginals (Native Australians)
The Khmer (Large empire, covered Cambodja, Vietnam, Thailand, and much more)
The Irish
The Tibetians

Well thats 14, but there is 1 that i can't remember the name of.

The people that inhabit the islands between Austrialia and Hawai. Perhaps the Fijians or so, but I know there is a group out there that managed to build a flourising civilization. That would be my number 15.


How bout those?

[maartena]

For the Dutch:

Leader: Stadtholder William of Orange.
Capital: Amsterdam

Startting Techs: Alphabet & Cermonial Burial

This because of historical trade and "hunebeds" in Drenthe province, which are Ceremonial Burial grounds.

Starting Abilities: Commercial & Religious

This because of trade again, and the Lutherian Church as well as other Christian mainstreams were developed in the Religious Uprising in the 16th century. Maarten Luther was Dutch. Troughout the centuries the country formed as the south being Catholic, and the north Protestant, without a single war between those sides after the 16th century.

Special Unit: A Frigate with one more defence point and one more move. The English Man-O-War has one more offence point. The Dutch, managed to win several sea battles while being in the minority. This because they were skilled sailors, and were able to outmanouvre the enemy's ships, and therefore got their cannons facing the enemy earlier. Either way, I think the special unit should be a 17th/18th century Naval vessel, because the Golden Age of the Dutch was in this period, when they mastered trade all across the world, and the VOC shipping company was formed.

Color: Orange of course

Leaders: A few i can think of:

Maarten Tromp
Piet Heyn
Michiel de Ruyter
Willem Barentz
Peter Stuyvesandt

The first 4 were sailors (no kidding) and the last one was the first governer of New Amsterdam, now known as New York


The first DutchMod is already being done by Dimitry Gerards in the CivFanatics forum. I would say his settings and configuration would be the best to use for the Dutch. He has used the VOC Galleon as a special unit, and he is quite advanced in making the modpack. So also contact him for the Dutch stuff. He listed more leaders too, but i can't think of them right now

Check this link: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showth...0&pagenumber=1

The DutchMod thread

[Martinus]

Originally posted by maartena
Starting Abilities: Commercial & Religious

Sorry, mate, but "Religious" is probably the last trait I would consider giving to the Dutch. Have you been to Amsterdam lately?

IMHO, Dutch should be either Scientific or Industrious (in addition to Commercial, of course).

[Martinus]

Originally posted by maartena
How bout those?

There is alread a voting thread here According to it, the most likely civ that will make it are:

1. Spanish 2577 151 7,8%
2. Mongols 2392 140 7,3%
3. Arab 2309 141 7,0%
4. Inca 2173 142 6,6%
5. Vikings 1928 122 5,9%
6. Turks/Ottomans 1874 124 5,7%
7. Phoenicians/Carthaginians 1308 90 4,0%
8. Maya 1209 89 3,7%
9. Celts 1090 76 3,3%
10. Portuguese 978 66 3,0%
11. Hebrew/Israelis 936 68 2,9%
12. Dutch 924 70 2,8%
13. Poles 833 52 2,5%
14. Ethiopians/Aksumites 816 53 2,5%
15. Koreans 656 40 2,0%

[lokifalling]

Originally posted by Ribannah


With regard to Amerind tribes, there are 4 main groups to consider, from south to north:
[1] The Kingdoms (Maya, Aztec, Inca)
[2] The Pueblo tribes (Hopi, Zuni)
[3] The Plains tribes (Sioux and many more)
[4] The Woodland (River Valley) tribes (Iroquois, Algonquin)

Are you including groups like the Cherokee and Choctaw in #4? The so-called "five civilized tribes" of the US southeast were almost as advanced as the Iroquois.

But I can't think of a grouping to include them all. Any ideas?

[El hidalgo]

Originally posted by tmarcl


I'd vote for Mecca, and the leader being Mohammed. The majority of the Arab world is Muslim, as are it's leader, making it appropriate, IMO.

Marc

I prefer to take leaders from a Civ's golden age, so I'd rather use Saladin, as in Civ 2. And Mecca was an inconveneint capital from which to administer a large empire, so the capital was quickly moved to Damascus, and later to Baghdad. I vote for Saladin and Baghdad.