APOLYTON EXTRACIVS PACK.

[ranskaldan]

So far all that I can contribute is a rather comprehensive Chinese city-name list (if the final pack includes cityname fixes, that is) the current list with civ3 is horrible, filled with weird cities, irrelevant cities, a strange building-order, and misspellings. I can also whip out a Chinese great-leaders list, since the current civ3 list is equally strange.

ah, so, where are you Locutus?

[Wernazuma III]

Yes, in my opinion city lists and leaders even for in game civs would be a good idea. I've made several long lists, especially for Greeks, Germans, French, English, Americans and Aztecs.

[Locutus]

Sorry guys, I'm in an extremely hectic exam week right now I hardly have time to sleep, let alone work on this pack. Give me a day or two, things should quiet down again soon...

[LoD]

Locutus: An update for you about progress of the Polish civ:

-the unique unit will undoubtedly be the hussar (almost 90% of votes).
-the matters of the capital (yes, kiddies, Poland had 3 of those ) and the leader is still to be decided upon (no dominant option in both).
-attributes: Militaristic and Religious (seems like the most powerful stereotypes about Poles prevail in themselves ), with Scientific as the third.

Also, we have 2 graphic designers (so far), competent in 3DSMAX etc. to work on the unit models and leader graphics.

That's all for now. Will keep you informed.

[Stefu]

LoD, I think that you Poles should just use the apparent guiding principle of Firaxis in design of Civ3 and settle for well-known. ie. Warsaw for capital, and, umm, err, eh, (Only Polish Leaders I know are Lech Walesa and that Pilsdsksdiksusksi fellow ), some guy named Stanislaw (There's at least one Polish leader named Stanislaw, right) as leader.

[Wernazuma III]

Sobiesky for Leader! He's the man! Signed: A thankful austrian

[pithorr]

Originally posted by Stefu
LoD, I think that you Poles should just use the apparent guiding principle of Firaxis in design of Civ3 and settle for well-known. ie. Warsaw for capital, and, umm, err, eh, (Only Polish Leaders I know are Lech Walesa and that Pilsdsksdiksusksi fellow ), some guy named Stanislaw (There's at least one Polish leader named Stanislaw, right) as leader.

Unfortunately all Polish leaders with first name Stanis³aw were morons...
Cracow for the capital, for sure! Warsaw formally became the capital in 1918...
Leaders: I prefer Boles³aw Chrobry (created solid basis for Polish state, gained king's crown, founded Church Metropoly in Gniezno, independent from German ones, succesfully fighted against HRE and Kievian Rus'),

[LoD]

Stefu: Well, I think I'll just stick to the local public opinion. Even risking the fact that, after the poll, a half o players will be happy and the other half won't .

Originally posted by pithorr

Cracow for the capital, for sure! Warsaw formally became the capital in 1918...

Yeah, and could you please tell me what's Sigsmund the 3rd Wasa doing up that column in Warsaw's Castle Square ?

[Martinus]

Originally posted by LoD
Yeah, and could you please tell me what's Sigsmund the 3rd Wasa doing up that column in Warsaw's Castle Square ?

Wasa did not transfer capital to Warsaw, just his residence (for the purpose of Civ3, he built there a Forbidden Palace ) It was because of a great fire that destroyed Wawel for some time, as well as the growing importance of Warsaw due to Seym (Diet) session being held there.

However the royal Treasury (including Crown Jewels) remained in Krakow. Also, all Kings were coronated in Krakow.

The capital (including Treasure and coronation ceremony) was officially moved to Warsaw by Stanislaw August Poniatowski, the last Polish King. We all know how it ended

[Locutus]

Well, my exams are finally over but a new problem popped up: I'm resigning as project leader. My reasons for this decision are explained in this thread. I'm especially sorry to 'have to' say goodbye to this project because it was very fun to do and because I hate letting you guys down. But my reasons for quiting ares stronger than the ones for continuing so, after giving this a lot of thought, I've decided to quit anyway. I hope someone else will take over my position as project leader and save the project, I'd hate to see it die. In any case, I plan on making a similar mod for CtP so it will certainly live forth in some form or another... (since CtP can support up to 64 civs some suggestions on leaders & city names for civs like the Swedes, Tibetans, Ukrainians and Neanderthals would be welcome )

Anyway, before I leave I think a number of decision can still be made by me that will get the discussion going again, even without project leader (at least temporarily)... Of course, all these points can be changed by a new project leader, I have no control over that (nor would I object to it).

I made a list of all the civ-properties in a big HTML file and put that file on my website. Even though I'm resigning from this project I'll keep the file on my site (and even update it from time to time if you guys want me to) until I run out of room on the server (not likely to happen anytime soon) or until Infogrames sues me You can find it here. I also added some suggestions myself with some of the civs, some may make more sense then others but all (IMHO) make more sense than some of Firaxis's choices. I also added some sort of brief comment to each of the cities/leaders/etc, not sure how useful that is but I found it handy myself (I've been using this file in a different format for quite a while already).

As far as editing the files goes, I think it's safe to edit just about everything about existing civs: the only things to be careful with is with removing or renaming civs and with changing CSAs and personalities (I did some research and asking around and unless I'm very much mistaken new CSAs can't be added at this point). New UU, leaders, generals and city lists are all open for change. However, I do think it might be a good idea to release two version of the mod: one that just adds new civs and one that also changes the existing ones. There are a fair number of people on this forum that don't want to change anything about the existing civs (or make only minor changes) and I'd hate to deny them this pack (an installer tool, VB app or batch file could easily allow for choosing/swithing between versions)...

For clarity: the ExtraCivs pack will include the top 15 civs from the XPC poll (up to Korea) plus (if time and resources and allow it and unless people object to the idea) 4 extra civs: Mali, Khmer, Byzantines, Polynesians. I personally don't see a reason to include Aboriginals/Australians as well: the Polynesians are supposed to represent all Oceanian civs (in the same way as Babylon, Iroquois, Zulu and India represent all civs from their respective areas). If the public demands it, one could argue for renaming the Polynesians to Austrialians, Aboriginals, Austronesians or something else but I wouldn't want to add such civs: more civs means more work and this pack is plenty of work as it is (graphics-wise anyway). Personally I wouldn't even object to reusing some of the UU and leader pics for these bonus civs (FE give the Mali the same UU and leader graphics as the Zulu and/or Ethiopians) to save time but I don't know how others think about this.

I think it's time to really get going with this mod: using my website template, discussions and polls on individual civs can start (I suggest reusing the XPC explained threads for new civs, starting similar threads for the existing civs and use polls whenever decisions need to be made) and graphics people can start working on the UU graphics (LoD: would those Polish graphics designers be willing to help out with all the graphics or just with the Polish ones?). As far as leader graphics go, I'll start a thread to see whether people would prefer 'real portraits' or the current 'animations'. Other than that, I don't think there's a real need for a project leader right now, discussing the options for individual civs can be done quite well without a leader.

If for individual civs/situations (FE Ethiopians) my knowlegde/expertise would be required to make decisions, I don't mind getting giving some advice. I'll also keep an eye on this thread over the next few days but other than that you won't see me here anymore I'm afraid...

PS reminder to whoever's gonna be the new project-leader: you'll probably want to ask permission to Infogrames/Firaxis before actually releasing the mod...

[Gromit]

So far all that I can contribute is a rather comprehensive Chinese city-name list (if the final pack includes cityname fixes, that is) the current list with civ3 is horrible, filled with weird cities, irrelevant cities, a strange building-order, and misspellings. I can also whip out a Chinese great-leaders list, since the current civ3 list is equally strange.

I don't want to make even more work for you lot but...
Can you guys make an ancient leader for the Chinese? One of the Dynastic Emperors of China maybe - Given that Mao's China is a 20th century phenomenon.

[Wernazuma III]

OK, as it seems we need a new project leader and I would take i up if no one objects. I already looked forward to the Extra Pack and don't want to see it die.

But I'll really check up with Infogrames as I don't have 500$ spare change...
And we should wait with finalization until the first patch comes out.

We still need volunteers for graphics!
We still need someone who is good with the Editor and Copy Tool.

One further question: Adding 15+4 civs as Locutus stated, is this possible, will that work?

[squeeze truck]

If the basis for adding civs is to be how different they are culturally, this is my short list of civs that I think should be added:

1. Indonesian (Javanese?) - (religious, commercial) Now one of the five most populous nations on earth. They also defeated an attempted Mongol invasion. They (and the Malay) are culturally and linguistically extremely distinct.

2. Khmer (Cambodia) - (religious, ?) Also extremely distinct. The Khmer empire constructed Angkor Wat, which even today is the largest religious structure on earth. (It holds the worlds largest stone pen*s as well.)

3. Turks - (expansionist, militaristic) The Turks represent a whole group of countries and languages. At least one deserves to be included. (Is it possible to make the Greek and Turk civs automatically hate each other??)

4. Ethiopians/Somalis (religious?, commercial) - At least one civ from Arab-influenced East Africa. The Zulus (being bantus) can be said to represent West and South Africa.

5. Tamil (?, ?) - Certainly distinct. I don't know offhand if there was ever any Tamil empire more significant than Sri Lanka.

6. Armenians - (religious, militaristic) (Are these people related to anyone at all?) Earth's first Christian Kingdom, with a 3000+ year history. Maybe too small a group to be included as a civ, like Israel.

7. Celts - (militaristic, commercial?) Bring back the Celts!! Celtic language and culture is like nothing else in Europe, and deserves to be represented.

8. Polynesians - (commercial, expansionist)

9. Anasazi - (scientific, religious)

10. Inca - (militaristic, scientific)

11. Arawak - (commercial, religious)

(The Americas have to have the same density of civs as the rest of the world. Otherwise the lone civ in, for example, South America will have no competition and will dominate too quickly).

Thats all. What do you think, sirs?

[squeeze truck]

Originally posted by Eli


Are you crazy?

Nah. Ariel Sharon all the way. I call dibs on animating his eye-bags.

[squeeze truck]

Originally posted by ranskaldan
So far all that I can contribute is a rather comprehensive Chinese city-name list (if the final pack includes cityname fixes, that is) the current list with civ3 is horrible, filled with weird cities, irrelevant cities, a strange building-order, and misspellings. I can also whip out a Chinese great-leaders list, since the current civ3 list is equally strange.

ah, so, where are you Locutus?

Curse Mr. Wade and Mr. Giles and their messed-up romanization.

In CivII, the Cinese had Beijing and the Mongols had Khanbalyk. They're different names for the same city.

CivIII has both Edo and Tokyo right next to each other in the Japanese build list!! Who does Firaxis's historical research, Mrs. Segovias econd grade class?