Should a 'Seafaring' CSA be added in an expansion pack?

[lockstep]

Another suggestion from the CSA design workshop :

'Seafaring': Free tech - alphabet; Effect 1 - water tiles yield more commerce; Effect 2 - civilization starts with a speedboat

The speedboat would be a civ-specific unit of seafaring civs, comparable to the expansionst civs´ scout. Its stats would be 0/1/4 (faster than a trireme, but no attack value), and it would be only in danger at oceans.

If we tolerated CSA free techs that aren´t located at the outset of the tech tree, map making would be another possible free tech for 'seafaring'. OTOH, I´d like to have the CSA-specific speedboat unit available before triremes.

Regarding the civilizations that are already included in Civ3, I think that the English could be termed a commercial and seafaring civ rather than commercial/expansionist as they are considered now by Firaxis. Civ´s from the top 24 of Locutus´ 'expansion pack' thread that I´d consider as seafaring are the Dutch, Phoenicians/Carthagians, Polynesians, Portugiese and Vikings.

Many thanks to Jeje2, Mark L and splangy for bringing forward the idea of a 'seafaring' (or 'maritime') civ-specific ability.

[lockstep]

Note: I´m not a native English speaker, but all my dictionaries (on- and offline ) tell me that 'seafaring' (and not 'maritime') is the correct term.

[Mars]

I voted for seafaring but how about instead of the extra commerce all the ships get plus 1 to move and your civ could start with say a coracle (speedboat sounds to advanced)

[Dauphin]

I think that the English could be termed a commercial and seafaring civ rather than commercial/expansionist as they are considered now by Firaxis

Definitely.

[lockstep]

Originally posted by Mars
I voted for seafaring but how about instead of the extra commerce all the ships get plus 1 to move and your civ could start with say a coracle (speedboat sounds to advanced)

When I typed 'coracle', my online dictionary surrendered. I imagined a unit like the Polynesian canue mentioned in Jared Diamonds 'Guns, germs and steel'. I don´t have the English version of this book, but browsing through some online retailers suggested that Diamond used the term 'speedboat'. Native speakers, please help.

Speaking of movement rates, your suggestion would also make for an interesting 'seafaring' effect. OTOH, I thought I´d rather create a CSA-specific unit with high movement (it has been revealed only lately that CSA-specific units are in the game) and leave the general movement bonus to the Lighthouse, which a 'seafaring' civ will surely want to build. I also wanted to create an incentive for seafaring civs to found their cities near the coast (to get that lovely commerce bonus).

BTW, it seems appropriate to me that a 'seafaring' civ always starts near a coast.

[jdd2007]

i agree with maritime...

[Dauphin]

Diamond used the term 'speedboat'. Native speakers, please help

Speedboats are motor boats designed for high speed.

How about catamarans?

[lockstep]

Now that Civ3 is released, we have more bits of info to speculate about the desirability of a 'Seafaring' CSA. I view this CSA as similar to 'Expansionist', and it seems that this CSA is more powerful than we thought so far because it allows for fast contact with other civs. A 'Seafaring' civ wouldn´t be able to get better stuff out of goody huts, and contact with oversea civs wouldn´t result in trade of resources until harbors could be built. OTOH, if trading of world maps and advances is possible without harbors (can someone confirm this?), a 'seafaring' civ could become sort of a 'power broker' and get a lead in science only by means of trade.

Edit: Map and tech trading without harbors has been confirmed.

[jsw363]

Originally posted by lockstep


When I typed 'coracle', my online dictionary surrendered. I imagined a unit like the Polynesian canue mentioned in Jared Diamonds 'Guns, germs and steel'. I don´t have the English version of this book, but browsing through some online retailers suggested that Diamond used the term 'speedboat'. Native speakers, please help.

A coracle is a skin-covered (as in animal hides) boat of small size. It's a rather unusual word. I remember that it was used often in Robert Louis Stevenson's Treasure Island. (Weird fact) A canoe is not at all like a speedboat. A coracle is similar to a canoe, but made from different materials.

On another note... Seafaring is technically appropriate, but it's sort of an unusual word that doesn't really fit with other words like "commercial" and "religious". I think maritime or nautical might be better words. Seafaring connotes very rough type of sailing. Don't know if that's what you want to convey. It's probably appropriate, but I'd go with one of the other words.

A great idea BTW. I approve of all the civs you've chosen for this list. Can't really think of any other cultures like this. Good Job

[molly bloom]

Row, row, row your boat....

A coracle link:

https://www.data-wales.co.uk/coracle1.htm

[Va-Toran]

Maritime should be used, as it sounds better than 'seafaring'. I also think that coracle is the wrong word, the Polynesians and Native Americans both used 'Canoes' and that is the word that should be used.

The Canoe unit would be powerful enough on it's own without having an extra movement point, so the commerce bonus is a good idea.

[Locutus]

Good polls, lockstep I agree an expansion pack could use 2 or 3 extra CSA's. As name for the boat is concerned, I would personally prefer Canoe but Coracle has certainly earned its name in the Civilization series (CtP2, GGS) and is very suitable as well.

[lockstep]

Originally posted by Locutus
Good polls, lockstep I agree an expansion pack could use 2 or 3 extra CSA's.

Many thanks, Locutus.

So far, the 'Agricultural' CSA has a solid majority of supporters (41:11, poll already closed), and Seafaring (Maritime) is also doing well in this poll (26:6 so far). There were some ideas for even more CSA´s (namely, Diplomatic), but I couldn´t come up with suitable civs.

Anyhow, with 8 CSA in total there would be 28 possible combinations of two CSA´s - and isn´t 12 a good number of civs for an expansion pack? (I suggest to change either the Aztecs or the Japanese from Militaristic/Religious to something else, so that no combination is used twice.)

[Sandman]

How about an enhanced settler unit which can travel across shallow water?

[lockstep]

Originally posted by Sandman
How about an enhanced settler unit which can travel across shallow water?

Good idea, but I´d rather suggest that the canoe/coracle can transport one settler/worker unit. That would also allow for early colonization of archipelagos or remote continents. (Think Polynesians.)