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Some notes about the German civilization

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  • Some notes about the German civilization

    Some want the Weimar Republic to be the Golden Age of the Germans...

    The time of the Wimar Republic is not a good idea for a golden age. That is because of high unemployment, dying economy and growing hatred towards racially different groups.... just cinema and art were on a climax, maybe also science... but inthat time, the science was globally used, not nationally... so the discoveries of Bohr, Heisenberg, etc were not useful for Germany as a country, just general physical acknowledgements... in contrast to CIV, where a tech is something crucial for the single civ only...

    Also, the capital of Germany during the Wimar Republic was Berlin. From the first point on. Yet the national congress took place in Weimar because there were riots in Berlin.

    And then, what unit would cause that golden age? Zeppelin of WWI?

    The Panzer unit as a unique one is not a good diea either. Truly, we had some damn good tanks in WWII, but so did the Russians and also the Americans and English... ours weren't that cool... and then, a winning Panzer would make the war time the beginning of a golden age... the end of the Nazi time... Of course, the golden age would also cover the time after the war, including the time of economic growth... you might argue history won't repeat in CIV, but you have to consider the facts from real history...

    There are 2 phases of German history that are in my eyes elligible for golden ages for the whole empire.

    1. Middle Ages. Expansion to the north and east, conquering territories of Prussia, Pommerania, expansion ofthe territory of the Teutonic Order etc... the unique unit causing this age would be a Teutonic Knight, an improved Knight

    2. Founder's Age. Foundign of the 2nd Reich under Bismarck and Wilhelm I in 1871. Introduced expansion of the empire in Africa (4 puny colonies, OK) and economic growth, though there was that crisis from 1873-1879. anyway, the causing unit could be some infantry unit, because the empire was founded after beating France... a Prussian Grenadier would be a good unit, some kind of improved Rifleman. In this case the golden age would end at 1890 (20 turns after the victory over France)... and who resigned in 1890?

    Another idea would be some time in the 18th century, expansion of Prussia, works of Leibniz and all, but there was no unified Germany back then, not really...

    So I dislike both the ideas of Panzer being unique unit and Weimar Republic being golden age, as some wanted it to be... Either we go for the Founder's Age with the Prussian Grenadier, or we stick with the fine middle ages for Germany... but then, the latter would cause Germany to be strong in the renaissance time, which it surely wasn't...

    Discuss.

  • #2
    Re: Some notes about the German civilization

    Originally posted by Ecthelion
    Some want the Weimar Republic to be the Golden Age of the Germans...

    There are 2 phases of German history that are in my eyes elligible for golden ages for the whole empire.

    1. Middle Ages.
    2. Founder's Age. Foundign of the 2nd Reich under Bismarck and Wilhelm I in 1871.

    So I dislike both the ideas of Panzer being unique unit and Weimar Republic being golden age, as some wanted it to be... Either we go for the Founder's Age with the Prussian Grenadier, or we stick with the fine middle ages for Germany... but then, the latter would cause Germany to be strong in the renaissance time, which it surely wasn't...

    Discuss.
    Interesting thread, Eccy. I think your second option sounds right: the foundation of the 2nd Reich represented the re-unification of (most of) the German-speaking peoples and brought the nation-state of Germany to true European-power status. The Prussian army was widely regarded as the strongest of its era due to its professionalism and organisation, and would be well-represented by Grenadier or Jaeger infantry.

    Regarding the panzer hoopla, I also agree with you: German tanks weren't that much better than American or Soviet. What made the difference was the superior tactics developed by generals like Heinz Guderian and Erwin Rommel. These tactics were copied within several years, however, so the German advantage was very temporary.
    Diplomacy is the continuation of war by other means.

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    • #3
      Someone wants the Weimar Republic to be the German golden age? ARE THEY OUT OF THEIR MIND?!

      2nd Reich should be the golden age for Germany, definetly, the appearance of Germany as a world power in a matter of a couple of decades. The UU should also be a Grenadier, the panzer would create a golden age in the wrong period of time...

      Comment


      • #4
        Yeah, I almost vomitted onto my keyboard when I read that Weimar Republic idea.... I'm glad I get positive response... maybe we can affect the game before its release

        Comment


        • #5
          Ecthelion, what do you think about a Landsknecht as unique unit? could be a good one, German mercenaries were very important in Renaissance armies (well and in most ages). It would be a improved pikemen.

          And what about some kind Barbarian rider from the age of the fall of Roman Empire...

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Some notes about the German civilization

            Originally posted by Ecthelion
            Some want the Weimar Republic to be the Golden Age of the Germans...
            Golden ages will be started by wonders in most cases. (i. e. early in game)
            How to tell the player that he has to wait till time of weimar republic!?

            .... a winning Panzer would make the war time the beginning of a golden age... the end of the Nazi time...
            I would not associate golden age too much with unique units (perhaps they should
            even remove this GA trigger and only allow GA's by building wonders).
            ...
            *All* UUs of *all* civs are famous cause they killed a lot of people - and are
            associated with cruel wars. Panzers are ok - there are IMHO too few
            modern age UUs.

            2. Founder's Age. Foundign of the 2nd Reich under Bismarck and Wilhelm I...
            Discuss.
            Isn't Bismarck leader of germany already?

            Arent

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Re: Some notes about the German civilization

              Originally posted by Arent
              Isn't Bismarck leader of germany already?
              I'm talking about the golden age not the leaders... tell me one civ where the golden age, unique units and leaders fit inot one time... or better: proof that is the case with most of the civs... there, you can't

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              • #8
                Hey, no need to get angy. !?
                My point is: Nobody ever said GA of
                germany is WW2. And the argument that UU
                start GA and thus a panzer would indicate
                WW2 as GA - I could just respond that
                Bismarck is leader and this indicates
                "founders age" to be GA.
                I simply humbly wanted to state that
                your suggestion is already halfway done
                - the other part would be to have a unit
                of "founders age". But I think there
                are far too many infantry units in the
                game already, panzers are ok.

                Arent

                Comment


                • #9
                  bump

                  so what is the German special unit? trigger for German golden age? German leader? cities?

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Ecthelion, I already stated in my first
                    post that you should not associate
                    golden age and unique units too much.
                    And I already said why: The golden age
                    will most of the time be started by
                    building wonders.
                    And I already stated that IMHO they
                    even should remove the golden age trigger
                    of unique units.
                    And I already stated that all unique units
                    are military units and thus would mean
                    war being the trigger for an golden age
                    which *is* somewhat cynical but if you
                    take a look on history it is actually
                    understandable.
                    That it would - in the case of Germany -
                    mean WW2 makes no difference, war is war,
                    it doesn't make any sense to count the
                    victims.
                    AFAIK the vast maiority of civers already
                    adorses the panzer tank and it's icon is
                    really cool

                    Arent

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      be stupid again and I'll ignore you forever...

                      where did I associate the unique unit with the golden age in my last post? or did I just ask for a possible trigger for the German golden age? or did I say there can't be any otehr triggerthan a unique unit? it is ****ers like you I make several posts in the row for making the DIFFERENT points clear... but then I get banned for spamming... damn, you can never make it right...

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        So ingore me.
                        If I read your answers to my posts again
                        I just get the idea you didn't even read
                        them or lost interest in the topic.
                        You said discuss, did you?
                        Now off with this.
                        ...

                        The only idea here I really liked was
                        the "barbarian rider". While I don't
                        think Germans had that many horses,
                        some scenario where you are a German
                        tribe (*one* of the many) and have to
                        move/fight your way into roman territory
                        would be *really* cool... ok I think I'll
                        make one
                        Leader being Arminius, UU perhaps a barbarian
                        2/2/1 with one additional hitpoint (?)
                        Militarist/Expansionist et cetera.
                        Would be really hard to wear down superior
                        legions and well defended towns...

                        Arent

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Ummmm....people....German tanks were FAR better than American or British tanks...at the end of the war the US Pershing and Britihs Firefly were coming close to the high end German tanks, but that's it for them...Sherman's sucked against anything about a PzIV, or even upgunned PzIIIs...Granted, the Russians had (marginally) better tanks...mainly just had more of them though...
                          Follow me on Twitter: http://twitter.com/DaveDaDouche
                          Read my seldom updated blog where I talk to myself: http://davedadouche.blogspot.com/

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                          • #14
                            Arent- Germans UU a Barbarian!
                            If Ecthelion gets mad at you because he says you are trolling- I may very well agree... I hope you don't mean that the Germans were the greatest as "Barbarians"!

                            Anyways, why name a unit a "Barbarian", call it a "Rider" or a "Dragoon" or something of the sort.

                            I vote for Germany's Golden age (Under Civ's definition of Expansion, Enlightenment, etc.)
                            As either the first one that Ecthelion listed, or World War II- Germany nearly conquered the world...

                            -David- Russia had better tanks. Germany had the second best (during most of the war)- however they had much better tactics, and that is why they won- Which is a good argument for making the Panzer a UU for them, for what is a UU but a specialized type of unit that a country uses well.
                            -->Visit CGN!
                            -->"Production! More Production! Production creates Wealth! Production creates more Jobs!"-Wendell Willkie -1944

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                            • #15
                              ...Then again if you merely mean the UU for a certain scenario, I forgive you

                              Also, Ecthelion- exactly why did you become so angry at Arent? I will admit, his ideas are scatterbrained and hard to see- but I see nowhere where he contradicts you in his last three posts... You seem to be agreeing with each other, and yet you yell at each other????
                              -->Visit CGN!
                              -->"Production! More Production! Production creates Wealth! Production creates more Jobs!"-Wendell Willkie -1944

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