The most glaring omission...

[Waku]

Originally posted by Ribannah
but what did they give human civilization?

Spaniards taught the world how to cross the ocean, unfortunatelly Dutch used this technology to traffic with slaves...

[Jay Bee]

Originally posted by Ribannah

Edited out. It's not worth wasting my time with this.

[Dinner]

There are far more people in Spanish speaking countries then in Arabic countries so I'd have to give the nod to the Spanards.

[Dinner]

Originally posted by Urban Ranger

Difficult, innit?

The Iroquois 7 Zulus could be cut and I wouldn't shead a tear. They are simply historical foot notes.

[Dinner]

Originally posted by Urban Ranger

Difficult, innit?

The Iroquois & Zulus could be cut and I wouldn't shead a tear. They are simply historical foot notes.

[ixnay]

Originally posted by Anunikoba

Also another thing to consider is the civ leaders. Who would you pick to represent the Arabs or the Spanish? The leaders for the civs that are included in the game are quite well known: Cleopatra, Ceasar (Julius, Augustus- which Ceasar is in the game btw?), Lincoln, Gandhi....

Julius.

[Steve Clark]

Originally posted by Steve Clark


Why is this even an issue? Just wait a little while and you'll probably see 100+ civs available to put into the 16 slots. Makes everything discussed here completely moot, imo.

For example, one of my very favorite Civ2 game I played included the Egyptians, Hittites, Assyrians, Minoans, Babylonians, Persians (and someone else), plus the barbarians disguised as Libyan raiders. You understand what I'm getting at?

Now in Civ3, whether these new ones include those fancy 3D leaders is irrelevant, imo. As far as civ attributes, those should not be in the regular game, only in scenarios.

It occurred to me that I don't know the answer to the degree of customization for the leaders. Do we know if we will be able to generate the 3D heads of any leader or person and place them into one of the custom civs? I still say that it is not important but most of the time, you'll be staring at the game map and interacting with your units and cities.

[Roman]

Arabs certainly were a massive unified state stretching from present day Iran to Morrocco and Spain under the Umayyad and the Abbasid dynasties.

Their cultural achievements are remarkable. They gave us one of the world's main religions, their architecture is awe inspiring and they produced excellent literature.

Scientific developments of the Arabs have also been considerable, especially in medicine. They also preserved much of the knowledge of the Greeks and Romans, while Europe was semi-barbarous.

There are many other notable achievements of the Arabs. They should make it into an expansion pack, which I think is likely if the game sells well.

[Roman]

It seems I am now ready to be crowned a king.

Now, who will preform the corronation ceremony and which deity will sponsor me?

[Tventano]

Sorry Waku

Spaniards taught the world how to cross the ocean, unfortunatelly Dutch used this technology to traffic with slaves...

Waku, I thought that the independence war of the Netherlands was finished in 1648 with the peace of Muenster and that further hostilities were not needed anymore.

The Spanish have transported much more slaves than the Dutch.
The West Indian Trading Company did more pirating Spanish ships (remember Piet Hein who conquered the silverfleet ?) than that it transported slaves.

Later the dutch supported the United States in their strugle with England which led again to a war with the english.

[Boris Godunov]

Originally posted by KrazyHorse
Spanish: Isabella

Arabs: Saladin

No no no!

Spanish: Charles V or Phillip II

I would make the Arab civ the Ottomans, and have Sulayman as their leader. One of history's greatest rulers!

Cheers

[Ribannah]

Originally posted by Waku
Spaniards taught the world how to cross the ocean, unfortunatelly Dutch used this technology to traffic with slaves...

Many tribes crossed the oceans long before the Spanish did, and the fact that the Spanish beat the Portuguese & others to the Americas in that particular timeframe was only due to the fact that Spain was not self-supportive and hence was in just a little more hurry to discover new routes to get rich. But it could as well have been any of their rivals, they all had the skill and the incentive.

The interesting part is what the European tribes did in the (re-)discovered lands,
because that was very different for each of them. While the Spanish initially went to plunder, the others could afford to take a longer-term view: the Dutch (later followed by Swedes and Danes), with their smaller population, concentrated more on trade with the natives, while the British favoured government (the French and Portuguese had a more even mix of politics).

The Portuguese started the slave traffic over the Atlantic Ocean (slave trade as such was already done by African tribes among themselves), but 90% of it was actually done by the British as said before in identical threads.

[Waku]

Originally posted by Ribannah
Many tribes crossed the oceans long before the Spanish did

Ribanita please read again: spaniards tought the world how to cross the ocean, do not read what it's not written.

Originally posted by Ribannah
the Dutch (later followed by Swedes and Danes), with their smaller population, concentrated more on trade with the natives,

as a merchandise

Originally posted by Ribannah
The Portuguese started the slave traffic over the Atlantic Ocean (slave trade as such was already done by African tribes among themselves), but 90% of it was actually done by the British as said before in identical threads.

You're no rebating what I've said. Again: Dutch used this technology to traffic with slaves.

[Waku]

Re: Sorry Waku

Originally posted by Tventano
The Spanish have transported much more slaves than the Dutch.

Get a book!

We were too busy pludering america.
Spaniards were of course a part of this atrocity but our role was to buy the slaves brought to America by others.

[Jay Bee]

Don't bother Waku. She's just giving (again) another proof of her vast knowledge. It's clear from her post that she does not know who Columbus was, why he did what he did, what reasons brought him to Spain, what navigation is, etc, etc, etc....