Scottish Civ for Civ3 expansion pack!

[Dinner]

Originally posted by Alexander01
This is Activision you're talking about here! You can't take ANYTHING they say as historical fact! CTP is only a cheap spinoff of Sid Meier's Civs and I don't know why we even consider it. They even stole the whole "Shakala" concept from Civ, without bothering to research!

You're right I should have gotten a better source then Activision, however, I still think CTP 1 & 2 added some valuable ideas to the whole civ concept. I like the way they did trade and public works plus it was nice to have multiplayer sypport right out of the box. It just sucks that Activision didn't take the time to properly debug the thing (or fix the AI for that matter) before they shipped it.

[Rogan Josh]

Originally posted by Mark L

http://apolyton.net/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=25511

Civ: Scots
Capital: Glasgow
Leader: Mary Stuart
Attributes: Sci Ind
Special units: Highlander (swordsmen), Schiltron (pikemen)

Cities:

You missed Roxburgh, which had one of the legendary castles (along with Stirling and Edinburgh)

[Rogan Josh]

Oerdin: BTW, you did realise that that "BOLLOCKS!!!" was meant to be humourous didn't you? No offense intended.

Someone complained about it.

[Dinner]

Originally posted by Rogan Josh
Oerdin: BTW, you did realise that that "BOLLOCKS!!!" was meant to be humourous didn't you? No offense intended.

Someone complained about it.

LOL, yeah. I thought it was kind of funny. I guess the joke was on me since I just trusted CTP and didn't bother to do the actual research myself.

[Dinner]

An interesting off shoot of this thread would be to do a "British Isles" senerio on a U.K. & Ireland map. If we could dig up a geographically correct map it then we could have the English, Scottish, Welsh, Irish, and maybe even groups like the Normans and Vikings all compete for domination of Britain. Of course we'd have to come up with city names, UU, CSAs, & great leaders for each civ but I think there would be a fair amount of interest in a senerio like this. What do you folks think of this idea? Do you think it is worth bothering with?

[Lumpkin]

No offence to Scots or anything but I think it would be very silly if Scotland were included as a Civ. Before the union with Britain, Scotland was a poor, relatively backward nation on the outskirts of Europe who spent its entire existence fighting with England. William Wallace was a corrupt sadist with very little in common with Mel Gibson while Mary Queen of Scots was such a spectacularly incompetent and unpopular monarch that Scots chucked her out and were quite eager to have the English chop her head off.

We can't have all 16 civs being European and I think countries such as the Netherlands, Spain and Austria all did a great deal more than Scotland.

Yes, Scotland's achievements after the unification have been quite staggering with many inventers, philosophers, industrialists, explorers, conquerors and so on but all of these achievements were very much the product of an integrated British state.

In my opinion Firaxis shouldn't include the English either. Britain has achieved far more than the two nations ever did alone so I think there should be a new civ with Queen Victoria as its leader and with all the major cities of the British Empire (from Glasgow to Sydney) included. Queen Elizabeth of the English AND of Britain is completely nonsensical.

[Dauphin]

Originally posted by Oerdin


Actually, if I was to rename the Civ Britain I would probably make Queen Victoria the head of state. Try and say she was French! :-)

Nah, she was German.

[Lumpkin]

Oerdin,

As it happens I was planning on making a civ exactly like that.

I would probably set it around 500 AD, just after the collapse of Romano-British civilisation and plague had decimated the population. That way it would be a colonisation scenario as well as a military one.

It probably wouldn't make much sense to have an English civ at that point since they were just warring Germanic colonists at that point at fought as much with each other as with the native Britons. Similarly the Scots were just an Irish tribe in the process of arriving in Britain and colonising what was then Pictland.

[Dinner]

Lumpkin,
Please read the above posts. You will find that many of the points you raised have been elaborated on, refuted, explained, and/or other wise discussed. I'm just to much of a lazy ass to bother rewritting them. Thanks.

[Dinner]

Originally posted by Big Crunch


Nah, she was German.

Well.... I can't win them all....

[Dinner]

Originally posted by Lumpkin
Oerdin,

As it happens I was planning on making a civ exactly like that.

I would probably set it around 500 AD, just after the collapse of Romano-British civilisation and plague had decimated the population. That way it would be a colonisation scenario as well as a military one.

It probably wouldn't make much sense to have an English civ at that point since they were just warring Germanic colonists at that point at fought as much with each other as with the native Britons. Similarly the Scots were just an Irish tribe in the process of arriving in Britain and colonising what was then Pictland.

I was thinking off setting it more around 1000A.D. since by then all the relavent powers had become nation-states. I think it would be fun to run a low to high middle ages senerio.
BTW The Picti (like the Welsh, Scotti, Britons, and others) are widely accepted to have been a Celtic group. The Scotii clans had members in both Scotland and Northern Ireland, however, the ones in Scotland succeeded in conquering the whole country and that's why we call it "Scotland" and not "Picland".

[Lumpkin]

Oerdin,

My problem with a scenario in 1000AD is simply that all the major cities would have been founded and the country wholly settled by this point. I think its more fun when there is the opportunity for colonisation rather than just military conquest and city improvement.

Since since you seem to know a fair bit about that time of history, I was wondering if you could advise me on what civs should be included in a circa 500 - 1000 AD scenario set in the British Isle.

If I included the four major Anglo-Saxon tribes (Wessex, Northumbria, Mercia and East Anglia), the two Viking tribes (Norse, Danes), the Scots and the Picts that leaves 8 spare places for British and Irish tribes (or maybe minor Anglo-Saxon tribes). Who would you suggest putting in?

[Dinner]

Originally posted by Lumpkin
Oerdin,

My problem with a scenario in 1000AD is simply that all the major cities would have been founded and the country wholly settled by this point. I think its more fun when there is the opportunity for colonisation rather than just military conquest and city improvement.

OK, I guess we have two different objectives with making our senerios, but that's alright. If you would like to do a colonization one then you might consider moving the date back further then 500AD as there we're serveral sizable towns/cities of Roman origin in England & Wales by then (example Londonium). You may consider having a weak Roman force starting with a few scattered in England and having Scots, Picts, along with various Germans and vikings set to invade. If you were to do this I'd use a map of the whole North sea area.

If I included the four major Anglo-Saxon tribes (Wessex, Northumbria, Mercia and East Anglia), the two Viking tribes (Norse, Danes), the Scots and the Picts that leaves 8 spare places for British and Irish tribes (or maybe minor Anglo-Saxon tribes). Who would you suggest putting in?

I think I would lump the Germanic tribes into three main groups Angles, Saxons, & Jutes (Jutes being from Jutland in Denmark). I'd have the Norse/Vikings stay in Norway/Sweden and I'm alittle uncertain how to handle the Celtic groups. You could just have one big group covering Northern England, Scotland, & Ireland or you could break it down amoung the various subtibes.
Since we already have 5 group included (Romans [who are set up for failure], Angles, Saxons, Jutes, & Norse/Vikings) that only leaves use with 3 spaces to cover everyone else. I think I'd give one civ each to a tribe from Ireland, Scotland, and Wales. Each of the three has numerious tribal names to choice from. Hope this helps.

[Black Fluffy Lion]

SCOTS RULE!!!!!!!!!!!

[Dinner]

Originally posted by Black Fluffy Lion
SCOTS RULE!!!!!!!!!!!

I always love to meet a fellow believer! :-)