Firaxis, give the public what they want!!

[Mister Pleasant]

American Leader? James Madison.
He designed the constitution.

Or even MLK? Why not? He may not have been president but he got a whole lot more done than most.

Jefferson wanted a nation of yeoman farmers. Idiot.

FDR? Concentration camps. Say no more.

Reagan? Uh, why exactly? Is the 'World's Biggest Deficit' going to be a wonder or something? (save him for a cold war scenario)

As for Joan of Arc - give me a break. The Frenchies have to have Napoleon.

[jdd2007]

i will need to defend bismarck. what i want to say is that he made germany a modern power and kicked the sh** out of france. also, i dont think anyone could say that hitler did more for germany than bismarck. hitler mass-murdered 6m jews, gypsys and catholic preists. one of the things that most disgusted americans liberating death camps was bins upon bins full of baby shoes. NOT ONLY DID HITLER CAUSE, SUPPORT AND GLORICIZE THE HOLOCAUST, BUT LOOK WHAT HE DID TO GERMANY ITSELF. IT WENT INTO WWII A SUPERPOWER AND CAME OUT A POOR, BOMBED OUT COUNTRY WITH A GENERATION OF MEN GONE. AFTER WWII IT WAS, OR WEST GERMANY WAS DEPENDANT ON THE US MARSHALL PLAN

unlike in hitlers germany, in bismarcks

The German state was not a despotism, and the German citizen was not terrorized.

In nineteenth-century European history only Napoleon can be compared with Bismark as an influential and successful political personality. Bismarck gave political meaning to the idea of being German, and he created a prosperous and respected German state. In 1849 a German historian had written that "the power or weakness of Germany determines the fate of Europe." Bismarck's Germany was an important factor in the international stability that characterized Europe during the last quarter of the nineteenth century.

Some useful sites:

A printed lecture on Bismarck’s reign:

http://mars.wnec.edu/~grempel/courses/germany/lectures/12bismarck.html

A text exercise on Bismarck:

http://hkuhist2.hku.hk/firstyear/Share/shareE14.html

http://www.kingston.ac.uk/~hs_s134/bislechnd1.htm

[OzzyKP]

Originally posted by Mister Pleasant
American Leader? James Madison.
He designed the constitution.

Or even MLK? Why not? He may not have been president but he got a whole lot more done than most.

Jefferson wanted a nation of yeoman farmers. Idiot.

FDR? Concentration camps. Say no more.

Reagan? Uh, why exactly? Is the 'World's Biggest Deficit' going to be a wonder or something? (save him for a cold war scenario)

As for Joan of Arc - give me a break. The Frenchies have to have Napoleon.

I could deal with James Madison, except he's not nearly as famous as the other guys. I doubt any non-Americans (or even many Americans unfortunatly) would have heard of him. So his best bud, Jefferson would be a better pick. Same ideology, same connections to the founding documents of this nation.

I could deal with MLK, but he was never a president so I don't think he'd count. Neither was Joan of Arc, so that decision baffles me.

Heck, if we want a non-president lets go for Barry Goldwater!! Yea!!! Hehehe.

[Tarquinius]

All the leaders from Europe can't be modern. It wouldn't be right. Thats why they chose Joan of Arc, and Cathy. Im surprised they chose Bismark tho.

ok, they don't need to be all modern, but you can choose other medieval/renaissance leaders than these two. Louis XIV for France and Peter the Great for Russia seem far better to me...

[civcop]

Ha!

jdd said:
"i will need to defend bismarck. what i want to say is that he made germany a modern power and kicked the sh** out of france."

Pretty much everyone has kicked the crap out of France at one point or another. Belgium too.

Mr. Pleasant (if that *is* your real name ), no fan of Reagan are you! We differ greatly on that, but I would say that he would not be a good choice as an American civ leader. He is recent and (because of that) there are still many who think (wrongly) that he was a lousy President. You also raise a good point about FDR. Personally, I'd pick Washington and Lincoln. As has been raised before in these forums, America has never had a female leader and there are really no candidates for the position in civ 3. Eleanor Roosevelt? Please! Her biggest contribution in civ 2 was being the ugliest leader in the game.

Ozzy, we apparently share political ideologies. Install Goldwater and you would have low corruption levels and be the first civ to develop nukes You can always add him to your game anyhow. Maybe you could create a conservative modpack with Goldwater and Reagan as leader choices for the USA.

[jdd2007]

Pretty much everyone has kicked the crap out of France at one point or another. Belgium too.

hahahahaha. u got me there, but still ...

[Arent]

There is a screenshot of Bismarck so he will be leader.

Uberkrux, perhaps Hitler is the *only* german leader you can think of ?
Catherine the Great as well as Bismarck simply were great statesmen
who - through diplomacy, war and clever economical management turned the tides
in favor of their country. The odds were against them
But I have no objections - if you want to play Hitler simply edit... *grin* - you know.
Hitler doesn't fit the scientific attribute but that's my own humble opinion.

Arent

[The diplomat]

Isn't it too late now for Firaxis to change this? The arts people would have to do brand new leader art.

Perhaps, for an expansion pack!

[d_dudy]

is this beat up france day? hasn't there been enough of that?

[jdd2007]

no

[DarkCloud]

Chinese- Chu Yuanchang... Not Zhu Yuhanzhang or Zhu Yuanchang... I am lead to believe that Chu is the true name of Yuanchang, at least according to the "Compact World History" book

...corrections ...corrections

Thomas Jefferson- American Leader
President, Author, Intelligent Man

[Dimorier Maximus]

Originally posted by DarkCloud
Chinese- Chu Yuanchang... Not Zhu Yuhanzhang or Zhu Yuanchang... I am lead to believe that Chu is the true name of Yuanchang, at least according to the "Compact World History" book

Actually, since the Chinese use characters instead of letters, both spellings are probably correct. Just like Zhou and Chow are translations of the same character.

Originally posted by DarkCloud
Thomas Jefferson- American Leader
President, Author, Intelligent Man

...and don't forget slave holder.

[Edward]

Re: Firaxis, give the public what they want!!

Originally posted by red_jon
The rest are OK, but it seems many countries were given rubbishy leaders because Firaxis wanted to make about half the leaders women for PC reasons, but in reality the great leaders were mainly men. Plus, it is mostly men who play civ games and who wants to play as a woman?

Perhaps they chose female leaders because mostly men play civ games.

[red_jon]

Re: Re: Firaxis, give the public what they want!!

Originally posted by Edward

Perhaps they chose female leaders because mostly men play civ games.

Is that why they made Elizabeth, Catherine, etc so attractive?

[HisMajestyBOB]

George Washington and Lincoln were excellent American leaders. Personally, I want Cleveland or Teddy Rosevelt, two of the best American leaders, and not as well known. They should rule!

Also, Hitler shouldn't be leader of Germany. Scaring away their greatest minds, starting a disasterous war, insane, and ultimatly losing a good chunk of land in peace treaty.