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**ancient** · September 17, 2001, 14:59

.....exactly.. excpet maybe for hitler, then again he is the most famous but its too un-pc....

**TechWins** · September 17, 2001, 15:27

Elizabeth isn't that bad of a leader and Hitler will NOT be in the game.

Here's what I would like to see for each nation:

The Babylonians - ???
The Chinese - Confucious (he may not have been a leader but he was very inspirational, sorry if I mispelled his name)
The Egyptians - Ramsess III
The Greeks - Alexander the Great
The Persians - Xerxes
The Americans - Franklin Roosevelt
The Aztecs - ???
The English - Winston Churchill or Elizabeth I (take your pick)
The French - Napleon or Louis XVI (again take your pick)
The Germans - ???
The Iroquois - ???
The Japanese - ???
The Romans - Julius Caesar
The Russians - Joeseph Stalin
The Zulus - ???

All the ones with question marks are Civs that I don't have much knowledge on their leaders or for some reason I just can't remember some of their great leaders.

**Transcend** · September 17, 2001, 16:19

Cyrus the Great should be the best leader for Persia.

Napoleon is more suitable the Jean D'Arc as the French leader.

Alexander should not look like one degenerated Roman senator.

Zulu has only one great leader: Shaka.

Germans had 2 Fredericks: Barbarossa, the Great

As for Russia, even Peter the Great was a better choice the Catherine the Nymphomaniac.

**DarkCloud** · September 17, 2001, 16:48

Napoleon- French Leader ... Yes,

Joan of Arc- NO: she was never the Queen of France

**Vlad Antlerkov** · September 17, 2001, 17:02

The Babylonians - Either Hammurabi or Nebuchadnezzar.
The Chinese - Zhu Yuan-Zhang or Shih Huang-ti.
The Egyptians - Ramesses III.
The Greeks - Pericles, Solon, Aristotle, or Menelaus (yeah, I know Menelaus probably never lived...)
The Persians - Xerxes or Cyrus the Great.
The Americans - Well, you could get into a mighty debate over this one.

I'd go with FDR or TR.
The Aztecs - Montezuma.
The English - Winston Churchill or Elizabeth I.
The French - Napoleon.
The Germans - Frederick Barbarossa or Kaiser Wilhelm II. (Maria Theresa was actually Prussian.)
The Iroquois - Tecumseh.
The Japanese - Tokugawa, Yamato, Isoroku Yamamoto... At the risk of sounding un-PC, I'd recommend Hideki Tojo. (Yes, that Hideki Tojo.)
The Romans - Marcus Aurelius, Hadrian, Julius Caesar, Scipio...
The Russians - Lots of good examples. Peter the Great, Michael Romanov, Ivan IV, Vlad Lenin, Andrei Sakharov...
The Zulus - Shaka Zulu.

**civcop** · September 17, 2001, 17:32

Iroquois

Tecumseh was not of the Iroquois. He was a Shawnee and they were displaced by the Iroquois (and treaties), but were not part of the Iroquois nation. Hiawatha is probably the best-known Iroquois leader. Ely Parker is another.

As for Hitler, he was just too evil to be used in a mere game. There are other German leaders to choose from. Yes, the vast majority think immediately of Hitler when you mention the topic of German leaders, but I'd leave him out. Stalin was also quite evil. Just my two cents worth.

**Christantine The Great** · September 17, 2001, 17:48

I doubt that they are suddenly going to go back and make a 3D model from scratch when they already said that they aren't adding anymore but polishing the game. So you are stuck with the leaders they deemed appropriate.

Adolph Hitler? I doubt that's what a German thinks of when someone asks him/her to name a leader of Germany...

**TCO** · September 17, 2001, 18:32

Re: Firaxis, give the public what they want!!

Originally posted by red_jon
I don't think many people are satisfied with the current leaders. Here are some alterations which I think are suitable...

England/Britain - Winston Churchill instead of Elizabeth I. He is much more widely recognised as a great leader by the British.

Russia - Joseph Stalin instead of Cat the great. C'mon, he was the leader in Civ1. Well, if you won't include him as he isn't PC, then at least have Lenin.

France - Napolean Who wants Joan of bloody Arc? Napolean is much more famous...

Germany - Adolf Hitler OK, REALLY not PC, but when you hear the words 'German leader' who do you think of? I rest my case...

Greece - Alexander NOT THE WUSSY BLOKE IN THE PIC. Firaxis are being un-PC here as he was supposed to be gay so they haven't made him macho anymore...

The rest are OK, but it seems many countries were given rubbishy leaders because Firaxis wanted to make about half the leaders women for PC reasons, but in reality the great leaders were mainly men. Plus, it is mostly men who play civ games and who wants to play as a woman?

Looks like you prefer men to women...DOH!

**jdd2007** · September 17, 2001, 18:42

i think bismarck should be german leader, ndai
he was a wonderful leader who unified germany, and then made it a world power. thanks to his excellant ideas and projects (modern military officers academy, modern RR system, etc.)

**Lawrence of Arabia** · September 17, 2001, 18:54

All the leaders from Europe can't be modern. It wouldn't be right. Thats why they chose Joan of Arc, and Cathy. Im surprised they chose Bismark tho.

**Inverse Icarus** · September 17, 2001, 20:28

i would honestly prefer Hitler over Bismark.

i know both of their histories and accomplishments, and without meandering into the evil genocide, Hitler did more for Germany.

**OzzyKP** · September 17, 2001, 20:30

Originally posted by TechWins

The Americans - Franklin Roosevelt

I don't want that commie SOB running MY nation.

Hrumph.

Ronald Reagan!!! Thomas Jefferson!!!

-Alex

**Dimorier Maximus** · September 17, 2001, 22:23

The only ones I'd change in Civ 3:

Persia: Cyrus the Great
France: Napoleon
China: anyone besides Mao Tse-Tung

**Inverse Icarus** · September 17, 2001, 22:41

Reagan.

Announcement

Firaxis, give the public what they want!!

Firaxis, give the public what they want!!

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