"On Second Thought..." Civs: A Truly Unique X-Pack?

[yin26]

I have seen and am watching the x-pack thread with interest. But I would like to put a spin on the discussion: "On Second Thought..." Civs. These are civs that you probably never would have considered interesting enough for Civ 3 (or ever heard of, for that matter) but once you learned more about them made you say: "On second thought, that WOULD be kind of cool."

My reasoning: I would absolutely LOVE to fire up the x-pack and be behind the wheel of a civ and a location on a map that is totally foreign to me. I want to have to study the small advantages I have (if any) and really take on the big boys. Think of it this way: When you play as the Chinese, you are SUPPOSED to kick some arse. But playing as Ireland and having to work and work and work just to stay alive could, in the end, leave you feeling a lot more accomplished come the end of the game!

I realize this would be leaving out some 'big names' for the x-pack, but it would add SO much to the overall Civ experience in my opinion.

Some Ground Rules (if I can set any, of course):

1) Please let's not detract from the civs discussed, though asking for good research is assumed. Let's really try to find the coolest thing about each civ and ask: Could that be made fun to play in Civ 3?

2) Again, forget the "Bigger is Better" argument for a moment and think about civs that would present a cool challenge in Civ 3 and bring to light some amazing history that we probably would all have overlooked or never been taught otherwise.

Some suggested civs:

** Korea (you have my thread for that, so I'll leave that alone for now)
** Ireland
** Scottland
** Malta

[yin26]

Again, the way I'd tweak the Koreans for the game is something like this:

• Reduced ability to expand but increased defensive ability.
• Increased research ability until modern age.
• Added diplomatic bonuses reflecting its non-aggressive stance.
• Near immunity to opposing civ cultural influence (borders CANNOT creep into Korean territory) but conversely much slower influence over OTHER civs' borders.
• Special Unit: Turtle Boat (most effective from 15-17th centuries): Nearly impossible to sink but has slow and rather poor offense.
• Special Tech: Printing Press: From time of discovery (usually early 13th century), adds for 20 turns a Golden Age of Learning (science bonuses) and major cultural influence over surrounding areas...one of Korea's best chances to expand its borders. Yes, Korea's Golden Age should be triggered by this PEACEFUL discovery.
• Special Trade Item: Celadon Pottery, which can only be produced in small quantities but is highly sought after by ALL civs.
• Major bonuses to worker productivity in the Modern Age but also increased chance for worker strikes unless full Democracy is implemented.

[yin26]

I have no idea for Malta and probably a ton of other civs, so I look forward to being educated.

[aaglo]

How about Denmark or Sweden? They both were once quite powerful and influential nations (at least in northern Europe). I just can't figure out anything special about them . Oh, Denmark has the oldest flag still in use...

Not much of help, I doubt...

[mactbone]

Ireland
Obviously Relegious (the guy who converted them all has a really interesting story)

Very autonomous, dislike centralized government (hmmm, how could that work, more partisans when invaders come?)

They have retained their culture even through many years of foreign rule/partial rule.

Case could be made that they're Militaristic.

UU could be a monk/missionary.

I can't think of any scientific advancements.

Follow this link for "concise" history of Ireland.

Desmond's Concise History

[Ribannah]

Just a random list of some "minor" civilizations to get you started:
Afghans, Australians, Batavians, Cherokees, Comanches, Frysians, Genoese, Goths, Helvetians, Hospitallers, Huns, Jutes, Normans, Nubians, Papuas, Parthians, Saracenes, Saxons, Tatars, Templars, Venetians ....to be continued

[Jeje2]

My idea is &Aringnd, Ahvenanmaa in Finnish

And before you ask &Aringnd is a county of Finland)

Before I give my spechs some clarification to why

The &Aringnd Islands form an autonomous, demilitarized and unilingually Swedish province of Finland. They consist of more than 6,500 islands and skerries. Today other countries with minirities / minority areas come to Finland/&Aringnd to study this special relationship - it's considered as an model example for rest of the world. (And it's an accomplishment of the League of Nations)

So an nation with own suverinity, but no military and highly accepted by others.

So the &Aringnd is something like:

• Cann't declare war - hard to declare war on (Atrocity)
• Near immunity to opposing civ cultural influence.
• Special Unit: Police (Only battle unit they have)
• Special Tech: Hard one - need help here. (Could be something with commersial sailing around the world) Discovering the tech begins Golden Age
• Diplomatic bonuses

How do you stay alive and prosped totally independently?
(Quite challenging)

[Gangerolf]

The Sami (Lapps)

They live scattered across northern Norway, Sweden, Finland and Russia, an area which they call Sápmi. Traditonally many of them are reindeer nomads. They number about 50000-75000. The word "tundra" comes from the Sami language (there are several Sami languages though).

Leader: ??
Capitol: Karasjohka (Karasjok), location of the Sami parliament.
UU: ?? reindeer-something. (moves extra fast on tundra and glaciers)
Abilities: Religious (shaman culture) and Commercial (fur-trading)

[DarkCloud]

Wales, The Welsh!

Inventors of the Cardigan WELSH Corgi

Obviously:

Noble, Friendly, Charming
(Perfectionistic, ?)

[Stefu]

Finland Finland Finland! Finland!

Capital: Helsinki

Ruler: Either C. G. Mannerheim (Led Whites in Civil War and Finns against Russia in Winter- and Continuation Wars) or Urho Kekkonen (was president for 25 years, by carefully leading Finland managed to keep us independent next to Russia)

Special Unit: Either Hakkapelits (primo Finnish cavalry under King of Sweden, fought in many parts of Europe when Swedes still amounted to something) or Ski Troops (to remind us of Miracle of Winter War)

Civ Abilities: Industrious (That Lutheran work ethic...) and Scientific (hey, we've managed to make ourselves a high-tech country).

[Gangerolf]

Stefu, wasn't Ã…bo capital before Helsinki?
-------------------------------------------------------

Here's another one:
the Boers (Afrikaaners)

http://www.boer.co.za/

Capital: Pretoria, or maybe Kaapstad (Cape Town)
Leader: Paul Kruger
Unit: Boer Cavalry
Abilities: Expansionist (the Great Trek)or Militaristic and Religious or Industrious.

THE MODERN BOER
"Take a community of Dutchmen of the type of those who
defended themselves for fifty years against all the power
of Spain at a time when Spain was the greatest power in the world. Intermix with them a strain of those infelxible French Huguenots, who gave up home and fortune and left their country forever at the time of rhe revocation of the edict of Nantes.
The product must obviously be one of the most rugged, verile unconqeurable races ever seen upon earth.
Take this formidable people and train them for seven generations
in constant warfare under which no weakling could survive, place
them so that they aquire exceptional skill with weapons and
horsemanship, give them a country which is eminently suited to tactics of the huntsman, the marksman and the rider.
Then finally put a finer temper upon their military qaulities by a dour fatalistic Old Testament religion and an ardent and consuming patriotism.
Combine all these qaulities and all these impulses in one individual and you have the modern BOER."

Arthur Conan Doyle. 1902 The Great Boer War

[yin26]

So far, that one DOES sound awfully cool! Anymore info you can did up for us? BTW, a number of these listed have me very interested. I hope people who list them keep coming back to add more info for us!

[Buck Birdseed]

Nice idea! To my mind, there are only three or four of this type of "unimportant but totally unique" civs already in the game, and of those only the Zulus have really captured my interest when reading history books.

My pick: The Swahili/Kilwans

- Unique in that it consists of blended elements from three distinct cultures, combining Shirzi/Persian, Bantu/African and Arab elements.

- Ruled by a Black nobility, with the Persians and Arabs as a middle class. The language (Kiswahili) is largely a Bantu one with certain Persian and Arab elements.

- Extremely trade-oriented- worked as a link between the Near East (and occasionally Far East) and inland africa.

- Very focussed on the central city state in each kingdom. The main one (strategically significant Kilwa) vassalised other major ones like Lamu (today in Kenya) and Sofala in Mozambique. However, lesser independent trade centres were located as far north as Mogadishu, which was in fact the second most dominant one.

- The Kilwan kingdom extended from today's Kenya-Tanzania border via Zanzibar to Mafia Island, but was almost entirely coastal. It only had coastal cities and trade posts, almost no in-land contact.

- Have you heard the legend of King Solomon's Mines (Also depicted in The World of Jules Verne scenario in Fantastic Worlds)? The "garden city" of Kilwa was the origin of this myth, because of its rumoured fabulous wealth.

Leader: Sultan Souleiman Ibn Mohammed el Malik el Adil

Capital: Kilwa Kiswani

Other major cities: Mogadishu, Sofala, Mombasa, Lamu, Zanzibar, Kilwa Masoko, Pato...

Unique Units: Dhow. A Galley but with more movement and cheaper to build.

Attributes: Commercial/Expansionist.

[Stefu]

Stefu, wasn't Ã…bo capital before Helsinki?

TURKU was indeed capital during Swedish rule, but Helsinki's been capital of Finland throughout Russian rule, when our national identity began to form, and independence.

[Saint Marcus]

MALTA

Special Unit: Hospitalier Knight, Crossbow, Revolting Peasant

Special structure: Coastal Fortress

Special trade commodity: Maltese Silk, Maltese Silver

Capital: Mdina or Valetta

Civ abilities: Commercial and Religious

Special ability: extra partisans when a city is forcibly taken, increased chance of a revolt when a city is forcibly taken. People are never assimilated in another culture.

History: early temples and statues found, dating back to 3000 BC. Later colonised by the Phoenicians who made it an important trade centre. Then colonised by the Greeks and Carthagians after that. Conquered by the Romans in the Punic Wars. Mdina (which was called differently by the Romans) made capital. The island became an important trading centre once again. (first Golden Age) The apostle Paul shipwrecked on the island and performed several miracles there. The people of Malta converted to Christianity. It become the property of the Byzantine Empire when the Roman Empire was split in two. It was later conquered by the Arabs, who formally named the capital Mdina. The Arabs improved it's defenses, build a mosque, and modernised the island as a whole. They were greatly impressed by the Maltese people, who were labeled as "strong, honest and hardworking"(second Golden Age). Then the Normans conquered it from the Arabs. The legend has it that the Normans gave a cornor of the their flag to the Maltese as a token of appreciation and friendship. The Tuscani (I believe) got hold of the island after them, and the island was given to the Hospitaliers (Knights of St.John) by the Pope. The big mosque was converted in a cathedral and the Hospitaliers further modernised the island, and build schools and hospitals in various cities. Then in the 1560s the Ottomans launched a massive attack to wipe the Knights out once and for all. It seemed an unfair fight for sure. The Ottomans sent most of their fleet and best units, plus they had cannons and muskets, while the Maltese relied on Crossbows. This battle was known as the Great Siege of Malta. In the end, against all odds, the Maltese people and the Knights of St.John defeated the might of the Ottomans. After this major battle the Hospitaliers improved the defenses of Malta significantly, making it the best defended stronghold in the Mediterenean Sea. Valetta, where a massive coastal fortress was build, became the island's capital. (third Golden Age). However, the Knights lost their way and become decadent under their wealth. When the French under Napoleon invaded they didn't have to fire a single shot. But eventhough the Knights surrendered, the people of Malta did not. They kept resisting the French invaders and in the end removed them from every corner of the island, with the sole exception of Valetta, where the French troops where pretty much trapped. When the English came to the rescue they didn't had to do much to capture the remaining french garizons. In the following decades, the English made Malta a modern nation. Then World War 2 came. Malta resisted both Italian and German attacks on the island with incredible strenght of will, and ensured an allied victory in north Africa. After the war, Eisenhower awarded the Maltese people with the Iron Cross of bravery, for their heroic stand in WW2 against all odds. In the 1960s the English granted them independence.

Characteristics of the Maltese, summary: Pascifists. They rarely fight and usually welcome invading countries. However, they will never change their culture or way of life (not a single maltese citizen converted to the islam under arab rule, which astounded the arabs). The only time they will fight is if their culture is at stake. If a foreign power wants to change the Maltese way of life, the people will revolt with incredible strenght and will. (Ottomans, French, Germans/Italians). No matter, how much you hurt them, they will never give in. Not even if under the threath of extinction. The Maltese people will do anything to preserve their culture, and that explains the seeming paradox between the pascifists and the revolting citizens. If a foreign power comes along who is willing to leave the Maltese culture in tact (Phoenicians, Greek, Carthagians, Romans, Byzantines, Arabs, Normans, Tuscani, Hospitaliers, English) then the people welcome the invaders with open arms. But if a foreign power moves in who wants to change the Maltese culture (Ottomans, Germans, Italians), the people will resist to the last man, woman and child.


Anything else you'd like to know? Feel free to ask.