The KOREAN Civilization: Things Every Civ Player Should Know

[eric789]

HazieDaVampire

is the Fact that its actualy spelt Corea, but invaded Japanese made them change it to a K?

I don't know and nothing is proved yet. I know once Europe called Korea, as Coree and Corea is still used by countries of Latin origin but there is no evidence that the Japanese actually changed the spelling but pure speculation. The origianl spelling was "Coree" but no one knows why it became "Korea".

[Ribannah]

Originally posted by Q Cubed
in north america, no tribe held as much sway as the aztecs did; nor would any have been able to form any sort of political network comparable to the aztecs. the iroquoi tried, but started far too late to truly develop a strong nation.

Funny. The League came into being in 1451 AD, built a large empire and stayed in good shape until they were divided over Handsome Lake's teachings and the American war of independence. They had a fully functioning democratic confederacy which lasted a whole lot longer than the Aztecs' cruel rule.

When it comes to political networks, I'd also rate the Sioux, Apache, Cherokee, Kiowa and several other tribes higher than the Aztecs and their offspring the Comanche.

Other than being in power for a short while, until it succumbed to the well-justified uprising, the Aztec rule produced nothing remarkable. I don't see how that can be compared to either Korea or the Iroquois.

[King of Rasslin]

"You said that the Aztecs represent the Latin-American civs, the Hispanic civs, which is different from the Aztec one. That's one very dangerous claim to make.. "

That isn't true. Aztecs and Mexicans are the same, except a few Mexicans might have a small amount of Spanish blood in them. I consider myself white even though I might have an American Indian great-great-great-great grandmother.

However, the culture of the Aztecs (human sacrifice, cannibalism, gross stuff like that) is very different from the Spanish (bull fighting, nude beaches, and other pleasant things). The race is the same, but they have been civilized by the Spanish influence.

[eric789]

King of Rasslin

That isn't true. Aztecs and Mexicans are the same, except a few Mexicans might have a small amount of Spanish blood in them. I consider myself white even though I might have an American Indian great-great-great-great grandmother.

60% of Mestizos, mixed blood of the Spanish and the native,10% of Caucasians and 30% of the native descents form the Mexcian population. 70% of the Mexicans carry the Spanish and other European blood.

[King of Rasslin]

No way! I can't imagine a few hundred conquistadors taking on 70% of the Aztec women. Those guys must have been freaks or on steroids or something!!!

[yellfromhell]

Q-Cubed,

I admit my little knowledge about Korea took me to think the Aztecs deserve better than Korea to have representation in civ3. That problem is solved, you and Eric won, I lost.

I accept we can continue discussing in a new thread were if Korea or Mexico deserve better to have representation in civ3.

I congratulate you for understanding that the method you employed to argue about economic power is similar to the one I wrongly used to argue about militaristic power and I accept you didnt use hypoteticals (but, I still think you could be suggesting one); eventhough you still say the mexican economic growth is a direct effect of the NAFTA suscription (and, for me, that is doubtfull; we cant know that).

I believe I`ve never attacked Korea. Perhaps I did, but please know for sure that I had no intention to do so.

Hugs,
Yellfromhell.

-------------------------------------------

Eric,

Except for the last paragraph, everything I said to Q-Cubed goes for you. I accept you were right in appointing my dangerous assumptions.

I still do not accept errors in this things:
a) You jumped in the discussion after I introduced Mexico in it, so "Mexico vs. Korea" was also being discussed then.
b) in the specific topic "Aztec vs. Korea" I did bring many facts to support my point of view. The problem was not the lack of facts, but that Q-Cubed brought Koreas more impressive facts to the table. Therefore, my only error was my lack of knowledge about Korea.
c) there are lots of more facts to bring about the Aztec civilization, but from know on I´ll show them sure that they havent enough weight to be opposed to Koreas ones.
d) I would have mentioned spanish influence in Mexico anyway, no matter if you entered in the discussion or not, because I dont feel humiliation when recognizing the other part has the reason. As a counterattack, I would have probably argued about USAs support to South Korea, a kind of support that Mexico does not recibe (because Mexico is not involved in any issue related to USAs war against communism)

I congratulate you for recognizing you were wrong when you ironically asked "Does Mexico carries a single tradition of the Aztec?".

I hope this make clear my actual position.

Hugs
Yellfromhell

[Lord Merciless]

Originally posted by Ribannah


Funny. The League came into being in 1451 AD, built a large empire and stayed in good shape until they were divided over Handsome Lake's teachings and the American war of independence. They had a fully functioning democratic confederacy which lasted a whole lot longer than the Aztecs' cruel rule.

When it comes to political networks, I'd also rate the Sioux, Apache, Cherokee, Kiowa and several other tribes higher than the Aztecs and their offspring the Comanche.

Other than being in power for a short while, until it succumbed to the well-justified uprising, the Aztec rule produced nothing remarkable. I don't see how that can be compared to either Korea or the Iroquois.

The Aztec capital Tenochtitlan alone would put all achievements made by Iroquois, Sioux, and other North American tribes to shame. The city itself even put Spaniards in astonishment.

[yellfromhell]

Ribannah,

[quote]:
"Other than being in power for a short while, until it succumbed to the well-justified uprising, the Aztec rule produced nothing remarkable. I don't see how that can be compared to either Korea or the Iroquois".

I accept thay cant be compared to Korea. I`ll learn more about the Iroquois and talk later about your affirmation.
But I can surely say the Aztecs did a lot of remarkable thing, and therefore I think you are wrong. The cruelty of the Aztec empire can also be discussed: their cannibalism and sacrifices where not done with any feeling of cruelty, but with fear of the gods. Many times common people offered themselves to be sacrificed as a gift to the gods, and that was seens as an honour. I understand that, for us, It looks cruel.

Hugs,
Yellfromhell

[yellfromhell]

About me, a latinamerican, feeling somehow represented by the Aztecs:

1) They are the only civ in Civ3 that directly comes from latinamerican territories.
2) All latinamerican nations had tribes in their territory in the beggining of the spanish conquest.
3) Todays Spain look more to Europe than to its past american colonies. Therefore, it can be seen as a second option of representation for latinamericans, after any local tribe (that would be chosen in first place). Eventhough, there`s not even a Spanish civ in Civ3, so only the Aztecs remain.
4) All latinamerican countries feel extremelly sorry for the massacre the spaniards did with our indians.

All of those are some reasons to feel represented by the Aztecs while playing Civ3.

Hugs.
Yell

[Ribannah]

Originally posted by Lord Merciless
The Aztec capital Tenochtitlan alone would put all achievements made by Iroquois, Sioux, and other North American tribes to shame. The city itself even put Spaniards in astonishment.

You have to distinguish between the city Tenochtitlan and the Aztecs. The city is much older and has indeed a rich history.

[Q Classic]

Ribannah:

Funny. The League came into being in 1451 AD, built a large empire and stayed in good shape until they were divided over Handsome Lake's teachings and the American war of independence. They had a fully functioning democratic confederacy which lasted a whole lot longer than the Aztecs' cruel rule.

When it comes to political networks, I'd also rate the Sioux, Apache, Cherokee, Kiowa and several other tribes higher than the Aztecs and their offspring the Comanche.

*nods*
i had not been aware of the fact that the iroquois had set up their political system as far back as the 16th century; so i modify my statement in the conversation with yell. the iroquois didn't fail. i haven't done enough research on the others, save the cherokee, but i wouldn't rate the cherokee as high, because much of their more advanced developments came during the colonization of america, and thus i'm hesitant to say that they are on par with the iroquois.

[King of Rasslin]

"4) All latinamerican countries feel extremelly sorry for the massacre the spaniards did with our indians."

They aren't really sorry if they give the land back or a lot of money. Black people are still waiting for their 40 acres and a mule.

[yellfromhell]

King of Rasslin,
In the case of my country, Uruguay, we are very sorry. Eventhough, it looks easy to be sorry: we have no tribes anymore
Yesterday came from Paris (Museum of Man) the rests of Vaimaca Pirú, the last Charrúa leader, and were burried together with those of Artigas, our procer.
Hugs.
Yellfromhell

[King of Rasslin]

We just allow the Indians to make casinos and take the money from stupid people anyway. It still won't repay the damage we did, though. But you do have to consider that we are the greatest country ever, and they are lucky to be living here. We really don't owe them as much as they want, but Uruguay is another story. I have only heard about poverty in South American countries, but you must be very wealthy if you own a computer.

[yellfromhell]

King of Rasslin,
Be sure Im not wealthy. I have a wife and a kid and my salary is 100 dollars. Im not poor either... I would say Im from the medium class. But from now on I`ll discuss this things in another thread because if not Q-Cubed will get angry (its just a joke Q-Cubed).
Hugs
Yellfromhell