The KOREAN Civilization: Things Every Civ Player Should Know

[yin26]

LOL! Yes, well...

I wonder would people would think if Japan changed the name completely to Crap, Land of the Losers. I bet you people would have jumped to change the name back in that case. So what this really comes down to is not 'political correctness,' which doesn't apply in this case to begin with, but whether or not you think A) the change from a C to a K is worth the trouble and B) whether or not you think the history of the change is important to begin with.

Frankly, most Coreans I have met (yes, using the C for emphasis) don't want to think much about the past. Can't really blame them. 'Move on,' they say.

All well and good.

But I think there is great value in spelling it as Corea if only to get people to say: "Hey, you mispelled Korea ... or am I missing something?"

At which point I can say: "Yes, as a matter of fact you are. Let me share with you some history about the mighty Japanese ..."

I think if you live in a world that can't remember yesterday, you are at least obliged to sit quietly while things are explained to you.

By the way, most Coreans overseas wouldn't be against the change because of "That's part of my history." Bull****. Most Coreans overseas wouldn't change it because they don't understand -- or just avoid -- their Corean identity in the first place.

[Veracitas]

yin,

I think you're very right about how overseas Coreans either do not truly understand their ancestral identity or don't really want to. Personally, I have visited Corea maybe 15 times--ever since I was a little child to the present--and I probably did not truly get a feel for the place until only my very recent visit (taking classes at Seoul National Univ for a semester, living in Seoul for my first time--I had always before gone to more rural Chonnam). Now, I am only beginning to learn what a complex and rich world my ancestral culture really was.

And I also think you're right about how Coreans tend to not like their past. The only things that are in their most recent memories are the brutalities of the Japanese invaders and the equally horrific Corean War...

here's an excerpt from Michael Breen's book "The Koreans":

Koreans are very much int he here and now. Although they have a very long and remarkably well-documented history, they take little genuine pride in it. They prefer to tkae you to a Samsung Electronics plant than to an ancient temple. As one whose eyes also glaze over in castles and temples, it took me a while to figure that the Koreans' attitude to their history was unusual. This revelation came one dark evening in the bar of the Seoul Foreign Correspondens' Club, which is on the eighteenth floor of a building where my office was, bang in the centre of the city. We were talking about tourism.
'What do you see out there?' said a Korean friend, a tourism expert. He was pointing to the grounds of the historic Doksu Palace. It was pitch dark.'
'Where?'
'Down there.' He pointed again.
'Well, it's Doksu Palace, but you can't really make it out,' I said.
'Exactly,' he said.
'What?' I wasn't quite following this Socratic method.
'Can you imagine any other major capital city in the world which hides its most historic sites like this? All the other palaces are the same. You can't see them at night. They should be floodlit for everyone to see.'
This piece of common sense had never occursed to me and I had never heard it mentioned before. You get so used to things. In the centre of this modern city, amidt he lights from offices where people were workign late, the street lights and cars, were patches of blackness that concealed its most fascinating monuments.
'Is it because they don't know what tourists like to see?' I ventured, instinctively proposing that we criticise the government.
'It's because we Koreans hate our history,' he said. 'We don't want to think about it and we don't want to show it.'
He was only partly right. Koreans have bought into a negative view oftheir own history in this century. They do not have a regard for their past, not just because it is painful, but more significantly because they do not know how to look at it.'

[yin26]

That's a great exerpt. Precisely what I have encountered over my 5 years here in Seoul. That's why, I think, my 'Corea, Did you Know?' -- soon to be -- book got such positive reviews by overseas Coreans. They told me point-blank: "I never knew that I had any reason to be proud to be Corean!"

Imagine that. How sad. I hope to fight that trend...and it's great you came back here to live for a while. Bravo!

[Q Classic]

dp

[Q Classic]

That's a great exerpt. Precisely what I have encountered over my 5 years here in Seoul. That's why, I think, my 'Corea, Did you Know?' -- soon to be -- book got such positive reviews by overseas Coreans. They told me point-blank: "I never knew that I had any reason to be proud to be Corean!"

Imagine that. How sad. I hope to fight that trend...and it's great you came back here to live for a while. Bravo!

i dunno, the main problem that i have is in trying to educate others.

maybe it's me, maybe it's just that they don't care, but it's awfully disenheartening and discouraging and draining to try to tell people about korea, and then they go and pretty much ignore everything you've said about it.

i've run into this problem more than once when i've been talking with people, and when i suggest something about korea, sometimes jokingly they'll say that japan does it better or some such. or that they're superior or some such.

needless to say, it often kills conversation. the biting thing about this, though, is that it comes from friends, and it doesn't ever exactly register that what they say is rather... unpleasant... so to speak. even after repeated reactions, as well as numerous comments.

is it any wonder some koreans/coreans who know their history are tired of it and don't want to talk about it any more? i've gotten to that point. i'm tired of arguing how we're different from the japanese, and such.

good god, since most of america thinks i'm chinese, i might as well let them.

[yin26]

Yes, I understand that situation perfectly. This is why I finally am comfortable letting people tell me that 'Your white face can do more to convince people than my yellow one can.' For years I totally argued against that way of thinking. Sadly, it seems true. Of course, it's a Catch 22. How can a white face really know all the complexities? I can't. All I can do is to combat some of the initial ignorance and try to instill some initial curiosity and interest in Corea.

You can't erase a century of mis-information overnight. It's gonna take a few generations more, at least. But the day is slowly coming, I tell you. Already major universities in the world are starting to try to add honest to goodness Korean Studies departments (most now are worse than useless). Within 20 years, you'll see Corea being studied as much if not more than China or Japan.

I'm happy to be in on the ground floor, I guess, where I might still have some impact. Q-Cubed: You most certainly can as well.

[Q Classic]

yes, i suppose. uchicago is adding a lot of things to their east asian studies division (they do have a pretty good curriculum)... but i'm not interested in majoring there, at least not as undergrad.

anyway, i will say that you're prolly one of the best allies here. you've got better access to the resources than i do at the moment, and you have a wee bit more time to think out your answers.

[knott]

Is it only in Sweden we always talk about North and South Korea?

[yin26]

No. It's the same here in South Corea, of course. I tend to think of the South as the only responsible world member, though, and the North as a kind of unfortunate (and still dangerous) backwater. Still, reunification might happen in our lifetime ...

[siredgar]

If I'm not mistaken, Sweden recognizes both North and South Korea. Thus, it is more important to make a distinction for Swedes than others.

Unfortunately, a taxi driver for one South Korean could not make the distinction and drove him to the Embassy of North Korea where he was detained by officials there. This may have occurred in Norway, not Sweden, however.

[Q Classic]

here's a link to another thread, specifically suggestions on what the korean civ would look:

http://apolyton.net/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=38340

[Q Classic]

and see, about that poor korean detained at the nkorean embassy...

i want to laugh, i really do.

i just have to stop imagining myself in his position.

[Veracitas]

Originally posted by yin26
That's a great exerpt. Precisely what I have encountered over my 5 years here in Seoul. That's why, I think, my 'Corea, Did you Know?' -- soon to be -- book got such positive reviews by overseas Coreans. They told me point-blank: "I never knew that I had any reason to be proud to be Corean!"

Imagine that. How sad. I hope to fight that trend...and it's great you came back here to live for a while. Bravo!

yay for promoting the Corean cause worldwide. I just got back, but I definitely learned a lot while I was there. I would definitely encourage all Coreans to experience their mother country firsthand.

[Veracitas]

btw, where can I get a copy of this soon-to-be book?

[yin26]

That will all depend on what my new job demands of me. I'll be working with Fulbright here in Seoul. If I'm lucky, I'll have it ready by the end of 2002. More like sometime 2003. But I'll be very sure to post about it here when it's done!

Thanks for the support on the idea, though. What brought you to Corea?