germans - attributes

[Arent]

If you are in favor of a more peaceful combination like industrious/scientific or industrious/commercial please vote "Other"!
...

There have been some complaints about the german attributes -
let's make a poll. Just pick the combination you're most comfortable with.
(couldn't include all - sorry)

Arent

[KrazyHorse]

Where's the "I'm not voting because this thread is going to be moved to the "civilizations" forum in under 30 miutes" option?

[Arent]

move!

Yes, you're right, sooorry... my mistake - it'll never happen again.
I was all the time trying to get my excuse here but my connection is perhaps slower than yours
Please, someone move it to civilisations, this got wrong, sorry...

Arent

[KrazyHorse]

Don't worry so much...once your bowels are removed, the rest of the punishment's almost painless.

Other than that, I vote for the Germans as Industrious/Scientific and the Japanese as the "missing" Military/Scientific civ.

[Arent]

industrial/scientific

gnnnn, I knew I forgot some important combination
Sorry, would you mind voting for "Other"?
(Hey you could start a poll: "Which civ should be militaristic/scientific?")

Arent

[Arent]

industrial/scientific

double post

[lord of the mark]

Other

Well obviously Germany from 1871 to 1945 is militaristic, and 18th c Prussia as well.

And the Germany that dominated nobel prizes from 1900 to 1933, that made German the international language of science, that was so important in chemistry, physics, archaeology and other fields has to be scientific.

The post-1945 BundesRepublik is industrious (ossies excluded )
and this fits well with Germany 1871 to 1914, and general stereotypes.

Hanseatic league Germany should of course be commercial.

And teh Germany of Luther, Bach, cathedrals and psalms should be religious.

And the Germany of the medieval settlement wave to the east (the drang nach osten) should be expansionist.

Maybe we should do what any good Weimar German critical intellectual would have done - go back and examine the entire concept to see if it makes sense.

LOTM
"the spirit of Weimar lives on"

[KrazyHorse]

Arrgghhh!

Don't you ever give up?

You're turning into a real Yin, you know.

[Kc7mxo]

I've said it before and I'll say it agian. I think that if they're going to be egotistical enoguh to arbitralily assign racial attributes in civ3, they should at least have the decency to do it randomly.

patooie.

[Stryfe]

I think that if I were to assign any attributes to a civilization it would have to be assigned based on what attributes that civilization has most made itself felt upon the world through. With Germany this is problematic as there has only very rarely been a German nation; the Holy Roman Empire, for instance, was not really a nation, but a league of princes; only in the modern time is a German nation.

For their attributes however, I would choose either Expansionistic / Religious or Scientific / Religious. German expansionism is behind the whole of Europe being the way it is; I don't know if there is much of Europe not affected by the migrations of the Germanic tribes to a high degree. But the power of German Science and Philosophy is so powerful late in the country's development--especially Philosophy--that it seems a crime to not represent that in the Scientific attribute.

The Religious attribute I would assert is indisputable (yet seems least popular). But what can you say about the nation that has produced the most influential, innovative, and important religious thought of the modern era? From Martin Luther, who produced the Reformation, to Schleiermacher, who introduced Liberal Modernism (not to mention Feuerbach and Strauss), up to Karl Barth, the most important voice of Evangelicism, Germany has consistently produced the greatest and most original voices in the sphere of religion. Today, if you examine the most influential theologians, they are, by and large, Germans--Jurgen Moltmann, Hans Kung, etc--or German Swiss. And it's not just that these have been "just" big thinkers in religion; these aren't thinkers who've only influenced an erudite few, but have been extremely influential as well throughout the world.

For some reason Firaxis wants Germany to be 'Commercial', which seems anachronistic to me. At no point in Germany's history until the post-WW2 era does Germany seem to be a Commercial powerhouse, and this era hardly seems to be the height of Germany as compared with, say, 1770-1938 (Am I missing something? Was Germany some great trading nation all that time like the Dutch or English? Has Firaxis mixed up meanings of the word "Dutch"?).

And for a final rant...Why isn't France represented as Scientific?

[Tiberius]

I voted "other", but with "commercial/industrious" in mind.

I agree though that they could be easily fit into the scientific, militaristic or religious attributes, depending on the era. I prefer them like they are now: commercial/industrious.

[Arent]

There are a lot of "Other" votes considering such options like "Other"
are rarely picked in polls. We'll see. Considering the number of votes and that this poll
startet yesterday it seems to be of interest.

Arent

[Wernazuma III]

industrious/scientific

[JellyDonut]

I agree with Tiberius. We should be commercial/industrious, like today. Come on, we've cleaned up our act since '45

[Arent]

Yeees, perhaps you're right - I can't edit
the poll but I'll edit the first post and
give some remark to help your cause
(Although it's a little late)

Arent