***never Is Too Late!!!*** Add More Tribe Options!!!!!!!!!!

[XarXo]

WHO MADE THE TRIBE LIST??????

MONGOLS??? INCANS??? SPANISH???? Where are them??? They had enormous empires and now... Nothing?

I suggest a list of 24 tribes, *ONLY* 24!!!!!!!!!!!! *ONLY* 8 MORE!!!!!! With the ones that you have made, o dear FIRAXIS. With this ones you cover ALL the basic cultures and could have a map without tons of starting points concentrated in a small zone (Europe...).

I sorted them in continents. No one more, no one less.

America: USA (Americans), Iroquois (Iroquese), The Birú (Incans, or the Tauantisuyu confederation) and Aztec Empire (Aztecs).

(4 tribes)

Europe: British, Russians, Romans, Spanish, French, Germans and Greeks.

(7 tribes)

Asia: China, Japan, Mongolia, India, Persia, Babylon, Israel and Siam (the Thai culture!!!!).

(8 tribes)

Africa: Zulus, Ethiopians, Egypt and Nigeria (this last one is the african state with the biggest increase in development, with an enormous territory and will have 600 millions at the 2020/2025).

(4 tribes)

Oceania: Polynese (Hawaii and the other Pacific islands, they could have a trirreme when start, with the expansionist option and a GOOD exploration AI, is a good posibility)

(1 tribe)

4 + 7 + 8 + 4 + 1 = 24

In the future expansion pack you can add 8 tribes, like these ones: Vikings, Portuguese, Catalans, Inuit, Turkish, Arabians (Arabia Saudi), Argentinians and Brazilians.

[Inverse Icarus]

yea. lets wait for firaxis to add a bunch of new leaders.

just what i need.

read the first line of the profile bub. then wait for an expansion pack.

[DarkCloud]

Essential Civs List

If we MUST include a native american civilization, just lump them all together: (Why the Biriu? why not the Mississippians or the Snake Mound builders, or the olmecs?)

Thus:
Civs:

Aztecs
Americans
Native Americans

British
Russians
Romans
French
Germans
Greeks
Spanish
Vikings

Chinese
Japanese
Persians
Mongols

Egyptians
Ghana (greater empire than the Zulu or Ethiopians; ancient empire)

Thus: only 16 Civilizations are needed

[XarXo]

Re: Essential Civs List

Originally posted by DarkCloud
If we MUST include a native american civilization, just lump them all together: (Why the Biriu? why not the Mississippians or the Snake Mound builders, or the olmecs?)
Thus: only 16 Civilizations are needed

The Birú (not "Inca Empire") is a 600 years succesion of empires (the last, the Inca one), they have an astronomy more advanced than the rest in the world in the moment, they controlled an empire as big as Brazil and they trade routes made magnificient cities and roads in all the Andes. Mississippians are only known by their racist past, Snake Mound , I don't knwo, olmecs was like mayans, a great civilization, but not enough to be included.

The Birú (the real and actual one) is Ecuador + Peru + Half Bolivia + Half Chile. See it in a map and compare this with Germany, France or another country. A lot of ecuatorians and bolivians think in a the Tauantisuyu State to save their Qeichua culture, a culture of 55 million of people. If you think that it's not enough, OK.

Originally posted by DarkCloud
Ghana (greater empire than the Zulu or Ethiopians; ancient empire)

OK, and Mali too, but Ethiopia is a special country, it has the most old state organization in africa (except for Egypt), they *probably* have the original hebrew alliance arc (yes!!), they have an empire a lot bigger, without enormous deserts of "no-one here", they controlled a lot of different cultures, etc...

Ghana... Well... Is possibility in the expansion pack

[DarkCloud]

Re: Re: Essential Civs List

Originally posted by XarXo


The Birú (not "Inca Empire") is a 600 years succesion of empires (the last, the Inca one), they have an astronomy more advanced than the rest in the world in the moment, they controlled an empire as big as Brazil and they trade routes made magnificient cities and roads in all the Andes. Mississippians are only known by their racist past, Snake Mound , I don't knwo, olmecs was like mayans, a great civilization, but not enough to be included.

Okay, didn't know that Biru was made up of Incans. Incans have a right to be included... but I believe that the Aztecs would be a more interesting civ to have in civ... so If one has to go...

The Snake Mound builders are the Mississippian Civilization... Not the Mississipian Confederate people 'racist past' HAHAHAHAAH. Sorry, it's easy to get the two confused.

The Mississipians, like the Anasazi were an ancient North American pre-colombian civilization.

OK, and Mali too, but Ethiopia is a special country, it has the most old state organization in africa (except for Egypt), they *probably* have the original hebrew alliance arc (yes!!), they have an empire a lot bigger, without enormous deserts of "no-one here", they controlled a lot of different cultures, etc...

Ghana... Well... Is possibility in the expansion pack

Sorry, forgot about Mali.
Ethiopia, all I know is that it was the only African civilization to escape colonization by the Europeans. I think they fought the French and maybe the Belgian civilizations.

Hebrew Alliance Arc?
but the deserts are made of nothing
Mali or Ghana is better than Ethiopia

[Wernazuma III]

Though I fear this is academic only , I think in Africa Abessinians win over Ghana/Mali and Zulus, the mali would win over Zulu. What speaks for the abessinians is the continuity of their civ and the fact that they MOL resisted imperialism.

[Wernazuma III]

while ghana was part of the islamic culture, ethiopia was the home of christians and jews (really not hebrews, but black jews)
they fought the islam for ages and never were conquered, though completely isolated. there is an ethiopian literature and since the 14th cent. they were identified by europeans as the legendary kingdom of the priest john. they also had to fight the english and italians. The latter won finally over them but it was a bloody and nasty war, having the italians losing many men.

[joseph1944]

Re: Re: Essential Civs List

Originally posted by XarXo


The Birú (not "Inca Empire") is a 600 years succesion of empires (the last, the Inca one), they have an astronomy more advanced than the rest in the world in the moment, they controlled an empire as big as Brazil and they trade routes made magnificient cities and roads in all the Andes. Mississippians are only known by their racist past, Snake Mound , I don't knwo, olmecs was like mayans, a great civilization, but not enough to be included.

The Birú (the real and actual one) is Ecuador + Peru + Half Bolivia + Half Chile. See it in a map and compare this with Germany, France or another country. A lot of ecuatorians and bolivians think in a the Tauantisuyu State to save their Qeichua culture, a culture of 55 million of people. If you think that it's not enough, OK.

09-08-2001 19:11



quote:

Originally posted by Locutus
I think they changed from Sioux to Iroquois because the Iroquois were much more a real civ, they weren't loose tribes but were unified in an alliance and more or less behaved like a single nation towards the Western colonists and other native North-Americans. My knowledge of the Sioux is limited but I think they were much less unified and one could thus argue that they aren't even a real civ whereas the Iroquois were (I'm not sure if everyone would agree to this but I can see how Firaxis might).



Locutus, I was going to post this 2 days ago but!! You are correct, the Iroquois were a federation from around 1400AD (Or early) to 1779 when General John Sullivan, under George Washington's orders, took revenge on the Indians by destroying their villages. The Federation was made up by the Mohawk, Oneida, Onondaga, Cayuga, and Seneca. The Iroquois called themselves the Ongwanonhsioni. This name refers to their dwellings and means we long house builders. About 1722 the Tuscarora Indians joined the league, which then became known as the Six Nations. The confederation of states that became the United States of America may have been patterned after the Iroquois League.
The Iroquois were a Federation longer that either the Aztecs or the Incas was an Empire. 379 years or so.
Both the Incas and Aztecs were started around 1400. I used an Encyclopedia to research both.

[joseph1944]

Re: Re: Essential Civs List

Originally posted by XarXo


I don't knwo, olmecs was like mayans, a great civilization, but not enough to be included.

The Mayans were around as a Civs from 2500BC to 950AD. Let's see 950 + 2500= 3450 years. Not bad for someone who is not included.

[Urban Ranger]

The selection of which civs to include is heavily influenced by commercial decisions. Otherwise the US ("Americans") would not have been in, at all. Ditto with a number of European civs. What would be in would be civs in Africa, the Americas, and Asia.

[Wernazuma III]

Re: Re: Re: Essential Civs List

Originally posted by joseph1944

The Mayans were around as a Civs from 2500BC to 950AD. Let's see 950 + 2500= 3450 years. Not bad for someone who is not included.

right, though i'm an aztec freak I would not have complained if they had included the Mayans. They were much around longer and were more innovative. They existed longer than until 950, though the toltecs conquered much of the land. Since then we had Tolteca Mayans, but the mayan cultural influence was still bigger. Many regions in Yucatan resisted the spanish until late in the 17th century and many kept their culture until today, to a higher degree than the Mexica (Aztecs) do

[DarkCloud]

The Americans would have been included in the game unless it was produced by American-haters.

Note:

-Americans participated in imperialism: The Phillipines, Cuba, islands, etc.
-Civil War (This seems a preq. for a civ to be included in Civ II. IE Spanish, English, Japanese, etc. )
-WW2 Major participant
-The major nuclear power of the world today.
-The major immigration country. Supposedly the 'best' country to go to if you are tired, poor, etc.
-No real social or class structures (unlike England )
-Etc.
-World Power from 1900-2000
-Major power from 1930-2000
Note that the stocks crashed in America, then simultaneously everywhere in the world.

[Adagio]

Originally posted by DarkCloud
no class structures (unlike England )

How I just hate class, especially the class room

Just joking

To the topic: FIRAXIS! ADD MORE CIVS, or at least make it posible for the player to choose between more than 16 civs

[tniem]

Re: Essential Civs List

Originally posted by DarkCloud
Thus: only 16 Civilizations are needed

I counted 17 in your list and you did not include any Metsopatamian culture - the birthplace of civilization.

[Provost Harrison]

Well some inclusions would be nice, definitely Spanish, Inca, Arab, Turk, Mongol. There are others that are significant that could be added, but not so much as these four. Perhaps the Potuguese or Thai for example. Still, I do not consider it to be that important an issue because their attributes would overlap with those of other civilizations...