Leaders of the 16 civs in Civ 3, just the facts sir

[Warm Beer]

Mmmmm, cookies N beer.

It seems there are two pictures of "brother bluto..." on the Civ selection screen and on the diplo screen:

one we can assume is Caesar:

http://www.civ3.com/images/screenshots/playersetup.jpg

But who is this guy?...

http://www.civ3.com/images/screenshots/foreign.jpg

The Start Up screen makes me wonder if civs are tied to color (ala civ II) after all. The screen makes it seem like the Custom "delta house" civ, modeled after the Romans and the Egyptian civilzation can co-exist. The question remains, is it possible for say, Japan and France to be in the same game. At least in a single player game.

[monkspider]

exactly my point beer, this guy *MUST* be from Persia, but who is he??

[tniem]

What is up with the pictures of Cleopotra? My history might be a little off but wasn't she at least part European?

Isn't the skin a little dark for Cleopatra or is just that all movies and pictures in the states are of Eurocentric views of civilization?

[Warm Beer]

Tniem: I agree with you as far as the whole Cleopatra thing....she was Greek by descendency (is that even a word?!?!) oh wait, ancestry.

Monkspider: perhaps this is caesar from another age (must admit when I first saw him I thought, "Venice?!?!") Another fellow brought up that it appears that leaders' images changes with the times...

http://apolyton.net/forums/showthread.php?s=&postid=413712#post413712

That's the "Just the facts ma'am" thread...Alexander01 made the observation.

[Urban Ranger]

The Cleopatra thing is open to debate. How could she rule Egypt if she's not from a royal line? That makes her African.

[Warm Beer]

When Alexander the Great conquered Egypt (among other lands) he died with out an heir. Hence his kingdom was divided between three generals, among whom was Ptolemy- he got Eqypt. Cleopatra is a decenant of Ptolemy. Her royal line is derived from the Macedonian conqueror.

very brief explanation...

[edit-misspelled Egypt... too many cold beers, methinks]

[MarkG]

edited: what WB said

[Buck Birdseed]

As an artistic interpretation, it's not completely improbable. There is a certain amount of evidence that she was at least 1/4 black. If you notice the woman pictured has clear caucasian features- note the nose, for instance. Plus, it's sunny in North Africa. The combination of 1/4 african descent, dark mediterranean features and a hefty spot at the beach each day could certainly produce an effect like this.

Plus, she's been considered Black or Mulatto in popular lore (which, after all, is what counts) at least since Shakespeare.

[Tingkai]

Now... Waaaiit a minute.
Why do you assume that the guy labelled Brother Bluto is the image for the male Persian? Could be Russian male. If it is Persian, then my bet would be Xerxes, but that ain't no fact.
As for German leader, looks like they have it being Bismarck von Otto (should be Otto von Bismarck)

[Buck Birdseed]

Er, that's exactly the same guy as in the other Caesar pic. Except he is in his "renaissance" appearance. See separate thread.

[BSH]

DITCH MAO!

They don't have Stalin representing the Russians, nor Hitler representing the Germans. This is my one peeve for the game. If there's no way to change the Mao animated leader, I'll delete the Chinese from the game. And that's actually my favorite civ.

B

[KrazyHorse]

Monkspider: perhaps this is caesar from another age (must admit when I first saw him I thought, "Venice?!?!") Another fellow brought up that it appears that leaders' images changes with the times...

I agree. The garb reminded me of Renaissance Italy a great deal, and the two faces look the same (try a side-by-side comparison).

In addition, they both have the same name, and one with "classical" connotations at that.

[Alexander I]

Xerxes would not look like "Brother Bluto." Persians (at least Achaemenid Persians [Cyrus, Darius, Xerxes, etc.] are portrayed on their monuments with mustaches and square like beards. The crown is similiar in shape to Hammurabi's but white, with vertical, triangular obtrusions on the sides instead of the rounded horizontal ones on Babylon's crown.

Iroquois leader = Hiawatha 100% (saw it in an article)

Japanese leader = Tokugawa Ieyasu 95% (see civs included thread for details and arguments for this conclusion)

Egyptians are almost definitely Cleopatra. Sorry. Yes, she probably was a mixed breed. The original Greek blood went back something like 20 generations. Some of those Ptolemies married native noblewomen, priestesses and princesses to solidify their shaky foreigner position by assimilating themselves into the Egyptian culture (and genepool )

Zulus are almost undoubtedly Shaka.

Every civ has had their CivII counterpart so far. It also looks as though they are trying to do away with the ficticious characters (Hippolyta, Ishtari, Amaterasu, Shakala, etc.)

While the German pic appears to say "Bismarck von Otto," I believe this is a renaming joke, and the leader is Frederick. Barbarossa this time, not kooky Frederick II like CivII. Besides, CTP used Bismarck, and using it in CivIII would be copying. (Like CTP did to CivII), and Firaxis wouldn't sink to...sigh...Activision's level.

Any further thoughts? What about UUs and special abilities?

[Alexander I]

Here are some images of Persian kings that I dug up. I suppose we can expect the animation to look like these if they don't try to model them after some Arab kook.

Darius (white crown and dark brown beard)

Xerxes (gold crown and purple beard [don;t ask me why -- the coloring of the picture is a little weird])

Darius is in council with is advisors, Xerxes is communing with his prime minister, the infamous Haman. Both Kings are the individuals on the right of the pictures.

***********************
Alas, I don't have as much computer savvy as I would like, so I was only able to post Darius in this message. I shall put on Xerxes in a moment.

[Alexander I]

Here is Xerxes.