AU 103: Island hopping

[alexman]

Excellent use of privateers!
You've been paying attention in class!

Did you invesigate Houston to make sure it works? Also, can you, the pesky owner of the pesky privateers, trade with America? Or do they stop all trade?

[Theseus]

Houston may or may not be blocked from trading with others (America is in such bad shape I don't think they CAN trade), but I know that I can offer resources.

Pretty cool!!

Privateers are good, if you build them in vast numbers. I think at peak I had over 40.

[Theseus]

The upgrade paths are great!!! I have always in the past held back on building large fleets of Frigates and Ironclads, as they are both so outclassed come the modern era... this is waaaay better.

[Coracle]

Originally posted by Theseus
. . .I will say that a lacking point in Civ3 is not just the overall weakness of naval issues, but the absence of trade routes, whether from actual trading (I miss the caravans), or from the RL impacts of seasons, prevailing winds and currents, etc.

Indeed.

The TRUE purpose of navies is the CONTROL OF THE SEAS and the INTERDICTION OF YOUR ENEMY'S TRADE ROUTES, while you protect your own trade routes.

That is NOT reflected in the game, and Firaxis won't fix it.

The REAL purpose of subs and privateers is to attack merchant shipping on those trade routes, not to attack enemy warships, nor to blockade ports. That is entirely non-historical.

There is, for example, NO way to depict an actual WW I or WW II scenario as in both cases German SUBS almost won the wars by cutting off Allied trade, and we can't do that in Civ 3.

Hey, Firaxis guys. . . FIX IT.

[Catt]

Originally posted by alexman
Catt, you know that this time there are more differences than just AI build preferences between the two versions, right? The one in the initial post uses the AU MOD.

Yes and No. I stupidly thought that the "standard" version was the AU mod (units, etc.), and the "killer" version was the AU mod *plus* the AI build often changes. In any event, I learned that I was playing a standard game soon enough that it didn't really alter any play tactics / strategies.

I don't have a summary yet, but I finished this evening. I borrowed a play style from Hippie Sam and played a suprisingly peaceful game (more on this later) and also tried to keep the AI in the game for as long as possible (. . . that clause is far more cocky-sounding than it should be, given the closeness of my game). I did engage in a fair amount of naval combat. Will try and post summary tomorrow (Monday, US - PST).

Catt

[lockstep]

Originally posted by Theseus
The upgrade paths are great!!! I have always in the past held back on building large fleets of Frigates and Ironclads, as they are both so outclassed come the modern era... this is waaaay better.

A question, Theseus: Do you feel Privateers become useless at some point (combustion, modern age, etc.)? Or is there always some use for a naval unit with hidden nationality, however weak its A/D/M rates are?

(Or would you even like to see a modern upgrade of Privateers? )

[Theseus]

Poor Abe...

Nailed him again.

[alexman]

Not so fast... pretty soon he'll ask you to leave or declare war! And if you don't, beware the mighty submarine-killer spearman!

[Theseus]

Sorry lockstep... I thought I posted an answer this morning, and it must not have gone up.

I've grown very fond of Privateers... I think they're useful as long as there are enemy units of up to 4-defense around. As soon as Mass Production is known, I stop building them, move the remaining fleet to hotspots and chokepoints, hide'em in cities, and take out opportunistic targets.

I probably nailed about 15 to 20 units with them so far... not including the unknown number of troops on transport ships.

(Dang I wish we had casulty reports!!)

I can't really think of a use for them in the modern era that's not an exploit, and I don;t think that there should be a modern equivalent... there's no really precedent in RL (China Sea pirates?? Come on.). Even subs are of known nationality.

[nbarclay]

Originally posted by alexman
Not so fast... pretty soon he'll ask you to leave or declare war! And if you don't, beware the mighty submarine-killer spearman!

Are spear-mermen one of the features of your mod?

Actually, it's the submarine-slaughtering galley that I'd be worried about. (Then again, maybe that galley is manned by spearmen? That could explain a lot!)

Nathan

[Catt]

The Adventures of Tourist Tina

Tourist Tina began her empire in a lovely starting spot. On a river, next to a cow, with forest, mountains and hills nearby for production, and with a plentiful supply of wine for all her subjects. Tina was pleased; little did she know that London would forevermore be the most powerful, productive, largest city in Tina’s empire. Blast you, alexman .

Tina first commissioned an additional English scout. Together with the initial scout from Tina’s retinue, this first scout explored the entire home continent. Tina, suspecting a water world start, set her scientists to researching Map Making in the hopes of fielding an early naval force. The home continent initially looked promising – a fair amount of grassland and hills, with some fresh water sources for early growth. London, a coastal city, began building a Great Lighthouse – all the better for expansive naval exploration. Tina, in an effort to avoid the mistakes of her boyfriend Hippie Sam, decided that the English would not enjoy a golden age while Tina ruled with an iron fist – only a representative government would be suitable for a true Tourista Golden Age. Tina’s scientists studied advanced governance concepts and began working towards a new political institution they deemed the Republic.

In 490 BC, Joan of Arc of the French completed the world’s first great wonder, the Colossus. Shortly thereafter, in 470 BC, Abraham Lincoln of the Americans to Tina’s west completed a great wonder of the world in Washington, the Pyramids. Caesar of the Romans promptly completed the Oracle. In 330 BC, Tina’s subjects completed the Great Lighthouse, opening much additional exploration to Tina’s growing naval explorers. At this point, Tina had established contact with Abe, Joan, and Hammurabi of the Babylonians, and had purchased maps from each of the three without sharing her own world map. The completion of the Great Lighthouse triggered an English Golden Age, with Tina’s Republican government hitting on all cylinders. Tina was ordering all cities to produce settler teams as quickly as possible in order to settle the island located just north of the home continent, and thence to colonies far off.

By 250 BC, with the English Republic still in the early years of its Golden Age, Tina’s explorers had successfully made contact with both Caesar of Rome and Alexander of Greece. Tina also purchased each leader’s world map, but declined to sell her own map or her own contacts with other world leaders.

The histograph, with minimap superimposed, at 250 BC was as follows:

[Catt]

Tina continued with her world exploration, locating two large uninhabited landmasses to the far northeast of the home continent, located west of Caesar’s empire. She set as her goal the colonization of the entire landmasses prior to any colonization by foreign powers. Tina’s home cities focused on building settlers, ships, and the occasional cultural improvement such as temples and libraries. Tina’s military force consisted of almost nothing – a few warriors and a spearman or two. In 130 AD, the citizens of London completed the Great Library, allowing Tina to allow her scientists some much needed time off, and to horde gold for overtime payments to the English workers who were diligently working to create an empire over which the sun would never set. London’s completion of the Great Library was immediately followed by Rome’s completion of the Great Wall. By 380 AD, Tina felt that she had explored the entire world, and mapped the world’s landmasses. Certainly there was a possibility that a very small (one-tile) landmass had yet to be mapped, but Tina doubted it. 380 AD also marked the first of three occasions on which the egomaniacal Caesar would demand tribute from Tina, in the first occasion demanding the secrets of Currency. Tina refused, as she would in the face of all three of Caesar’s demands (made in 380, 760 and 1200 AD), and in each instance Caesar’s impotent response was to bemoan the “political climate” in Rome.

A screenshot from 380 AD follows:

[Catt]

Tina’s empire continued to grow. Galleys, Caravels ,and later Galleons rushed English settlers, often unprotected, to faraway lands. Single-tile islands were especially prized by Tina as she knew that amphibious units, not expected to be available for hundreds and hundreds of years, were the only units capable of capturing such settlements. The English military remained almost nonexistent – had Tina’s rivals decided to invade the home continent, or attack the burgeoning English settlements west of the Roman Empire, Tina’s brave colonialists would have been largely defenseless. Tina, as part of her long-term planning decided that her capitol properly belonged in her northeastern colonies – Tina’s subjects constructed a Forbidden Palace just north of London in anticipation of a future relocation of the English capitol to the far northeast. The world remained peaceful. Having established embassies in each foreign capitol as soon as possible, Tina would have been alerted by her diplomats to foreign wars – no wars were initiated.

In 770 AD the people of London once again celebrated the completion of a project that would thenceforth be known as a wonder of the world – Sistine Chapel. Although virtually none (if any) of Tina’s cities had yet built a cathedral, the Chapel promised to greatly extend the contentedness of English subjects across the whole of the empire. London started building either England’s first cathedral or a new wonder, Magellan’s Voyage – Tina can’t remember precisely since her boyfriend Hippie Sam had friends over frequently at this time and Tina often experienced a contact high. In any event, London added its fourth success to the list of the wonders of the world by completing Magellan’s Voyage in 990 AD. In the intervening years, Joan of Arc had built Sun Tzu’s in 810 AD, Hammurabi had completed Leo’s Workshop (damn!) in 880 AD, and Alexander had completed Copernicus’ Observatory in 960 AD (damn!).

A view of the English empire at approximately 1000 AD follows (Screenshots taken from late game - the colonies are highlighted in purple on the minimap):

[Catt]

Many years before, Tina’s explorers had discovered a mountainous and volcanic island to the far north, and far east of Tina’s future capitol (fingers crossed). This smallish island presented many dangers – observers from the crow’s nest of English ships identified large numbers of barbaric peoples subsisting (just) off the meager fruits the land provided. But the same English explorers reported wealth of untold amounts in the form of rare gems plainly visible from the coast. Tina, taking into account the large number of barbarians, determined that occupation of the island would be doomed to failure for some time. But by the 1000’s AD, after Tina’s scientists had discovered the power of Gunpowder and Tina’s Generals had taken such research and applied it to efficient military application, Tina judged it was time to secure the treasure for England’s greater glory. A caravel transporting an English settler and two workers had already been dispatched to a remote island north of America and France, but had failed to settle its target island by only a whisker (one turn – see above). This caravel was instructed to proceed north to Barbarian Island, to be joined there by an English ship carrying three of Tina’s new musketmen regiments. A second caravel carrying three additional musketman followed some 6 turns behind.

Tina’s commanders reported that the battle for Barbarian Island would be intense, and that victory was by no means assured. But Tina had faith in her fighting men, and judged that the three regiments of musketmen had a better than average chance of surviving – but heavy casualties were expected. Tina’s forces were aided by Lady Luck when they were able to unload near the Barbarian stronghold but were able to dig in and fortify in mountains before the Barbarian onslaught. Over the course of a decade, 35 primitive Barbarian horsemen divisions and several Barbarian warriors stormed the English garrison. But Tina’s men held! With only a few wounded soldiers surviving, the English settler and two workers disembarked in the newly pacified Barbarian Island.

[Catt]

Tina continued on her peaceful growth path, but began to worry that a Great Leader would never emerge to assist in building the new English capitol in the northeast. Her empire remained woefully behind in terms of military might, but advanced in terms of naval forces and cultural efforts. The English efforts to expand and colonize much of the world continued into the 900s and even 1000s AD – military preparedness suffered. Nonetheless, after receiving much advice from her boyfriend Hippie Sam, Tina determined that peaceful growth and a largely disarmed empire represented a calculated risk worth taking.

Sometime in the early 1300s, Tina’s England took the histographic lead away from Rome, with the largest and happiest empire. But the northeast territories remained largely undeveloped. The colonists, converted to the ways of laziness and corruption, habitually started building a harbor (ultimately built with significant gold from the home continent), a marketplace (also subject to overtime bills paid by Tina’s treasury, and only then an Aqueduct to allow the growth of these outposts (often with a temple thrown in to secure wider lands). A palace relocation to the colonies would absolutely secure English dominance in the world, but Tina possessed no means by which to relocate her palace.

In 1030 AD, the Americans constructed JS Bach’s Cathedral, a wonder that Tina did not covet due to its continental limitations. In 1230 AD, the city of Dover constructed Adam Smith’s Trading Company – forevermore the English harbors, marketplaces, banks and airports would be maintenance-free, sparing Tina’s treasury significant expenditures. Shortly after Adam Smith’s construction, the American’s completed Shakespeare’s Theater. In 1345 AD, London completed Newton’s University, adding to the scientific knowledge of the English empire. In 1665 AD, suspecting that the game of life was now won, once again the citizens of London completed yet another wonder of the world – the Theory of Evolution. Tina had heard marvelous tales of completing both the ToE and a scientific research project at the same time, allowing a civilization 3 scientific advancements in one term – until now neither Tina nor her colleagues had yet tried this, but Tina was bold and did indeed confirm that completion of ToE and a scientific research project in the same turn results in three research advances during one turn.

With English core cities all producing factories, Tina sold knowledge of Atomic Theory to all other civs of hundreds of gold up front, plus 50 – 150 gpt, always making sure that she didn’t push any leader to exhaust his or her treasury. London completed Hoover Dam in 1620 AD. Notwithstanding the completion of Hoover Dam, the construction of factories, and the railroading of the English countryside, production remained anemic in the English empire. Tina’s subjects of Newcastle (southernmost city on the island just north of the home continent) were able to build the Iron Works – but even after Iron Works, Factory, and a Nuclear Plant, Newcastle produced just 35 total shields (31 after factoring corruption) due to the fact that it could only work three land tiles. London, with a Nuclear Plant, and 19 citizens, was producing only 70 shields per turn.

The English military was still woefully behind the world standard. Many infantry and several cavalry complemented the early English warriors and spearmen; six musketmen, upgraded to infantry, occupied Barbarian Island. Tina decided to focus on military preparedness, even to the detriment of other potential city improvements. By 1650 or so, Tina had trained and transported several infantry and cavalry to her northeastern territories – and a good move too, as Greek transport ships, escorted by warships, were working the coasts on the English colonies.

Alexander, despite an existing Right of Passage Agreement, an ongoing luxury trade with England, and the continuing obligation to pay Tina some 75 gpt for a technological advance Alexander had previously coveted (this was less than he was capable of paying), landed military troops in English territory. Tina immediately signed a Mutual Protection Pact with Caesar (he had been requesting one for some time) to counter the MPP in place between Greece and America. In addition, Tina’s newly arrived expeditionary forces arrived in her northeast territories, and deployed to defensive positions should the Greek forces have anything other than a good shore leave in mind.

Alexander’s forces attacked Tina’s colonies, earning the enmity of the world. Caesar declared war on Greece; America declared war on Rome; and Tina was forced to declare war on America shortly thereafter. It was only a matter of time before France and Babylon abandoned their neutrality and declared war against both Rome and England.