AU Mod: woker jobs

[pvzh]

Some woker jobs consume wokers:
* colonies
* outposts
* radar towers
* airfields

Colonies are hardcoded, however others are not, and AI loves radar towers.

To change that we need to assign number more than 1 to the cost of building it, so tile improvement will be built the same way as road/mine/irrigation.

Since AI is in love with radar towers and not very good at keeping healthy number of workers, we might help it by assigning the cost of a road or a mine (tops) to it. Even if AI workers has nothing to do, just joining them in to city is a better option for AI than wasting a worker on radar tower.

We could "fix" outposts/airfields the same way since they have very little if any use as it now, but I doubt that AI will use either of these.

[Modo44]

One question. Won't the AI try to build Radar Towers everywhere, when it is allowed to? Wouldn't such behaviour actually hurt it?

[pvzh]

I think AI builds radar towers in OCP-like pattern since they provide bonus of 2-tile radius including diagonal.

[nbarclay]

I think this is definitely something that needs tested to see what happens before we make a decision.

By the way, this is not a change that would work entirely in AIs' favor. Under the standard rules, I'm reluctant to build radar towers of my own (in what few games last that long) because doing so costs workers. But if my pollution clean-up crews could build radar towers in their spare time, I would very likely build them all along my borders in peacetime, and I'd also look for opportunities where cultural borders are shallow enough to use them to support offensive operations when I'm at war.

[joncnunn]

I used foreign slaves for Radar Towers in Conquests 1.0

In 1.22, I'm bypassing the tech allowing them competely.

[JimiD]

if a change means the AI is not as heavily penalised (might build radar rather than something else?), it is not much of a penalty if it encourages us to use something which is underused.

There will be a benefit to us, but I would imagine the use of artillery is significantly greater, both in defence and of course in offence.

[Modo44]

Originally posted by nbarclay
By the way, this is not a change that would work entirely in AIs' favor. Under the standard rules, I'm reluctant to build radar towers of my own (in what few games last thatt long) because doing so costs workers. But if my pollution clean-up crews could build radar towers in their spare time, I would very likely build them all along my borders in peacetime, and I'd also look for opportunities where cultural borders are shallow enough to use them to support offensive operations when I'm at war.

Yes, this would give the player a new option, that wasn't really there when Radar Towers cost Workers. Well, it was, but in games already won. But the thing is, the AI has very static defenses, so Radar Towers mean much more to them, than to a human. So overall, I would see this change as one favoring the AI, even if not by a large margin.

And I agree it needs testing. We don't really know what the AI will do, if presented with something very different than what it was programmed for.

[Pfeffersack]

I like the idea.The lack of workers is a serious AI flaw and radar towers consuming workers makes it worse.
It surely will make the human players build radar towers, too...but I view that as positive (balance to decrease costs of a structure which is currently neclected by the human player) and in the "worst" case (in terms of helping the human player), we will end up with both sides having a net of radar towers (for me the AI is not so bad in placing its towers).

Of course testing is needed to see if it alters AI behaviour; I will mod this in my next game and post my observations here.

[joncnunn]

I really think this Radar Tower issue has been mute since 1.22.

Sure, in 1.0, Radar Towers were in the required Radio tech.

But now it's in the Advanced Flight tech, why bother ever reseraching that tech.

[Pfeffersack]

Originally posted by joncnunn
I really think this Radar Tower issue has been mute since 1.22.

Sure, in 1.0, Radar Towers were in the required Radio tech.

But now it's in the Advanced Flight tech, why bother ever reseraching that tech.

Yes, that might be true, but IMO it would be another reason to include this change - if the human player still don't build them, it will just help the AI with its worker problem.

[TimHobbit]

Originally posted by Pfeffersack


Yes, that might be true, but IMO it would be another reason to include this change - if the human player still don't build them, it will just help the AI with its worker problem.

Well, I like Helicopters, for one thing. With the AU changes to allow lots of other units to be air lifted, I have used them a lot. Since I'm one of those "builder" types, most of my games have some major wars in the late industrial and early modern eras.

Tim

[alexman]

Since there is no more discussion, let's place pvzh's proposal under consideration:

1. Yes/No: increase base turns required to create an outpost to 6 (the same as a mine). The action does not consume a worker.
2. Yes/No: increase base turns required to create an airfield to 6. The action does not consume a worker.
3. Yes/No: increase base turns required to create a radar tower to 6. The action does not consume a worker.

I chose 6 as the base number of turns (the high end of pvzh proposal) so that it's more difficult to use several workers to get instant improvements (insta-airfield after an invasion, insta-radar during an invasion as you conquer cities, etc), which is clearly a human-only ability.

Voting in a week.

[pvzh]

1. Yes
2. Yes
3. Yes

Anything except radar towers is not much of an issue, since planes on airfields are not safer than in newly capured town (combat setlers are better anyway) and outposts are defenceless having visibility radius 1 regardless of elevation.

[alexman]

The issue with airfields is that they provide a way to receive reinforcements by airlift, and they cost much less than an airport.

[Modo44]

Originally posted by pvzh
and outposts are defenceless having visibility radius 1 regardless of elevation.

Don't they see more, when put on Hills, or Mountains?

As to Airports, I think it's better to force a human to bring more Workers to build those. I mean, normally you only need one.